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Solved First Benchy - Troubleshooting Time for a Noob

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Ravitch, Dec 20, 2016.

  1. Ravitch

    Ravitch New Member

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    Howdy All,

    Got my first couple of Benchy out of the new Robo 3D R1 Plus. Just a little background on me, am coming from a FlashForge Finder, followed by a Qidi. I lucked out with both printing almost perfectly from the jump, so this will be my first time troubleshooting.

    I am using Simplify3D to slice, and using all Medium default settings. So far printed 3 Benchy, and all are exhibiting the same issues, in all the exact same places (including the zits).

    Filament type: Inland PLA - Gray, Blue, Orange
    Extruding Temp: 210
    Bed Temp: 60
    Bed makeup Stock Robo 3d R1 Plus bed (initally had a BuildTak on it, but stupid me didn't know it auto-leveled hot, and there went that BuildTak first autolevel).

    So, using Simplify3D's troubleshooting, it appears that I have to attempt the following to fix these errors:

    - up my extrusion rate, turn down the extrusion temp a bit (all the Benchy have that same burn mark and drooping in the front of the boat)

    - figure out better raft settings (previously only used FlashPrint, their rafts fall right off, Simplify3D's rafts are on there forever as they are pulling inner layers out trying to remove.)

    - Not sure which else I should tweak at this point

    Would the experts in the crowd mind commenting on what they would start tweaking based on the above and pics? If I left out any data points please advise. I'm not sure if just saying I'm using Simplify3D's stock Medium settings is enough info, as some may not have used it, so please let me know if you'd like that blown out and I'll list them all.

    Thanks in advance!!
     

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    #1 Ravitch, Dec 20, 2016
  2. Ravitch

    Ravitch New Member

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    Just to follow up, it definitely appears to be relegated to the slicer. Loaded up MatterControl, and it is halfway through a Benchy on default PLA Medium settings, and so far it looks flawless. Watching it lay down the first layer made me realize Simplify3D is screwing the auto bed leveling up, like I have to add some Z offset in S3D. Not sure if that is causing a chain of effects or not. I noticed that Matter Control at default is at 100% extrusion and S3D is at 90%. I'm thinking after this goes through I'll adjust the Z stop on the auto level, copy MC settings over, and throw another print out. Will report back!
     
    #2 Ravitch, Dec 20, 2016
  3. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    @Ravitch for the most part it looks pretty good. I can make a suggestion on the front and why it doesn't look as nice as the rest.

    This next statement is true for all models and filament types.
    When you have a steep angle you can get a better surface finish with a lower layer height. Here is the reasoning, The extrusion width with a given nozzle size if virtually the same regardless of the layer height you choose, so if for example you properly configured slicer resulting in an extrusion width of .48 mm it will be .48 mm whether the layers are .1 tall or .3 tall. When you use taller layer heights there is simply less overlap on overhangs and you end up with some slight areas of adhesion or no adhesion at all at the model edges. The same thing happens when angling in but that is usually never a problem because the entire extrusion is supported by the layer below. Lowering the layer height and reslicing it will result in a printed model that has a better surface finish in that front overhanging area.

    Please note that lowing layer height is not a panacea, there are compromises, sometimes significant. The most obvious is that it can take much longer to print a model as a direct result of more layers, time is also extended as a result of the possible need to print each layer slower. Longer layer print times may need adjustments to temperature, you might need to lower the extrusion temperature so as not to burn the filament that result in discolored spots, or you might need to increase the amount of part cooling.

    The linked article does a good job of illustrating these points although it focuses on a fully supported receding angle rather than an overhang, just picture his images of printed models upside down and you will see what I mean. http://thrinter.com/high-z-resolution-3d-printing/

    3D printing is all about compromises. That is why all the veteran users here remind everyone that 3D printers are not PRINTERS. You are running a very small manufacturing plant and need to think along those lines when deciding when and where to make the adjustments needed that result in 'perfect' prints.
     
    #3 WheresWaldo, Dec 20, 2016
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  4. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    #4 mark tomlinson, Dec 20, 2016
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  5. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

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    Have you calibrated the extruder yet? I use inland almost exclusively and I print at 188-190 as a data point. So 210 might be a little hot. Lastly, ditch the raft, you shouldn't' need it except int extreme circumstances with the Robo. Best of luck!
     
    #5 Toro1966, Dec 21, 2016
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  6. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    There are rare cases of skinny, but tall models that would benefit from a raft due to not enough surface area on the glass.
    I agree though that this is exactly that -- rare.

    If you need a raft for everything then your printer is not setup quite right.
     
    #6 mark tomlinson, Dec 21, 2016
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  7. Ravitch

    Ravitch New Member

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    Thanks for the reply! I'll try those temps, I guess I had mine so high as all my Inland PLA has the starting temp at 205-220, so I figured 210 was a happy not lowest not highest. Noted on the rafts, I have since ditched them. First time printing on glass so first time I had to deal with prints not sticking. I'm totally spoiled by the MagTek installs with BuildTak on my other machine.

    I'm not sure how to calibrate the extruder. It is one of the first things I google'd, and it seemed to come up with a million different wizard ways on how to calibrate, and wasn't sure which was right, so i ended up with a severe case of Analysis Paralysis and gave up at that time. Is there a preferred/best/official calibration method?

    I have since fixed a majority of the issues. Pulled off the large gear wheel and wrapped the nut with Teflon solved almost all the blobs and weird anamolies, well either that or drilling a Hatch Filament Holder into the wall above the Robo, as the stock filament holder up and through the slot seemed like it was making the extruder work hard for the filament. That gear piece had a ton of play in it, and now is super snug...I thought that play might have been causing the blobs all over on spots with lots of retractions. Either way one or the other or both worked great. I still have a little bit of tweaking left to do to get to "perfect" for me, so definitely interested in calibrating.

    Thanks to all for the help!!
     
    #7 Ravitch, Dec 22, 2016
  8. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

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    Here is a tutorial. Let me know if you run into issues.



    Glad you're making good progress!
     
    #8 Toro1966, Dec 22, 2016
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  9. Ravitch

    Ravitch New Member

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    Thanks Toro! You guys have all been a great help. I came to realize last night that part of the problem is my bed won't auto level. Auto level will give me an excellent first layer on the left side but not the right. I can adjust the z in Goode and get a good right side but will air print on the left. I'm not even sure that I can manually level the bed, and search only brings up using shims to fix bed level issues in the R1+. Is that the case? Attached pics of what my right side looks like now.

    One good thing is the XXL controller I ordered cake in yesterday.

    I'm going to run that extruded calibration now, thanks for the link/video! I know this printer will be awesome once it's dialed in. Just like my Qidi Tech. Bought it used but like new on Craigslist by someone who made an impulse buy in Amazon and never took the time to figure it out. Took me a week and a million google searches and slight mods to get dialed in and now it's flawless. So much so that it's paying for itself on 3D Hubs. Got a couple test orders for tabletop gaming pieces, and I guess the quality blew away what they were getting from other Hubs, so now I'm getting flooded with orders. One guy brought some of the pieces over when he picked up his order and I was amazed how bad it was, and that someone had the guts to hand what looked like a bag of wet laundry over to a customer.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    #9 Ravitch, Dec 23, 2016
  10. Ravitch

    Ravitch New Member

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    [​IMG]

    Oops, forgot pics.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    #10 Ravitch, Dec 23, 2016
  11. Ravitch

    Ravitch New Member

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    I just wanted to follow up and say that I want to kiss all of your digital faces!!! I just finished the calibration, which worked great and now I'm sitting at an almost near perfect extrusion rate. I'm not sure which exact adjustment across all the suggestions did it (probably all of them :) ) but I've had a print on the bed for an hour and it looks absolutely perfect. First layer went down perfect, no bubbling or other issues, layer work is near invisible, overall looking excellent! Thanks all!!

    Edit: I'm gonna wait until this print is done so I can snap a pic and post it here before I mark this closed :)
     
    #11 Ravitch, Dec 23, 2016
  12. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

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    Awesome! Very happy to help. Please post a pic when you're done!
     
    #12 Toro1966, Dec 23, 2016
  13. Ravitch

    Ravitch New Member

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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Was long overdue on some pics. I had such a backlog of orders that as soon as I got it up I've been whipping it at full speed ever since. I really need to do a complete write up on how I fixed the bed. Long story short the x and y bed rods are all warped in the middle that was causing the bed to be all over the place. Had to mark them to track the humps, then turn the rods manually with pliers u too the hump was pointing horizontally instead of vertically up or down.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    #13 Ravitch, Dec 27, 2016

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