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Solved Extruder heat loss

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by PickyBiker, Jan 7, 2015.

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  1. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Can you post the communications log from a session that starts and then fails?
     
    #41 mark tomlinson, Jan 17, 2015
  2. Chris Nichols

    Chris Nichols New Member

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    No, it's taped tightly to the hotend.
     
    #42 Chris Nichols, Jan 17, 2015
  3. Chris Nichols

    Chris Nichols New Member

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    Can do... where do I find the logs or can you give me a quick link on how to set up / record them?
     
    #43 Chris Nichols, Jan 17, 2015
  4. Chris Nichols

    Chris Nichols New Member

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    Hold on... found the setting in Repetier... be a few minutes...
     
    #44 Chris Nichols, Jan 17, 2015
  5. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Sorry, that will be software specific @Mike Kelly might know how you do this with MatterControl. There should be a way.

    Ah, did not realize you were upgraded to Repetier :)
     
    #45 mark tomlinson, Jan 17, 2015
  6. Chris Nichols

    Chris Nichols New Member

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    Hmmm. I think I know what it might be: broken wire /connector on thermistor?
    See below:

    upload_2015-1-17_13-37-38.png

    The test print I'm running always seems to fail at the same point - where you see the dip. This time I killed it and then restarted immediately and you see that the temps were still good and recovered. However, the motors don't move but the software thinks it's printing as the XYZ values start moving right along.

    Here's the interesting part of the log:

    13:51:55.119 : ok
    13:51:55.119 : ok
    13:51:55.119 : N34 G92 E0 *80
    13:51:55.119 : N35 G1 Z0 F7800 *29
    13:51:55.119 : ok
    13:51:55.119 : N36 G1 X95.42 Y96.902 F7800 *107
    13:51:55.119 : ok
    13:51:55.119 : N37 G1 E1 F1800 *7
    13:51:55.119 : ok
    13:51:55.119 : N38 G1 X97.202 Y95.513 E1.29511 F1080 *28
    13:51:55.134 : ok
    13:51:55.134 : ok
    13:51:55.134 : N39 M117 ETE 52m 32s *82
    13:51:55.134 : N40 G1 X100.2 Y94.772 E1.69855 *76
    13:51:55.150 : ok
    13:51:55.150 : ok
    13:51:55.150 : N41 G1 X107.8 Y94.772 E2.69142 *76
    13:51:55.150 : ok
    13:51:55.150 : N42 G1 X110.024 Y95.169 E2.98653 *67
    13:51:55.150 : ok
    13:51:55.150 : N43 G1 X112.346 Y96.654 E3.34665 F1080 *32
    13:51:55.165 : ok
    13:51:55.165 : N44 G1 X132.346 Y116.654 E7.04175 *114
    13:51:55.165 : ok
    13:51:55.165 : N45 G1 X133.637 Y118.508 E7.33686 *122
    13:51:55.165 : ok
    13:51:55.165 : N46 G1 X134.203 Y120.632 E7.62412 *119
    13:51:55.181 : ok
    13:51:55.181 : N47 G1 X134.248 Y122.006 E7.80369 *125
    13:51:55.181 : ok
    13:51:55.181 : N48 G1 X134.239 Y128.779 E8.68857 *126
    13:51:55.228 : ok
    13:51:55.228 : N49 G1 X134.219 Y129.148 E8.73681 *119
    13:51:55.228 : ok
    13:51:55.228 : N50 G1 X133.702 Y131.347 E9.03192 *112
    13:51:55.228 : ok
    13:51:55.228 : N51 G1 X132.457 Y133.232 E9.32703 *126
    13:51:55.243 : ok
    13:51:55.243 : N52 G1 X130.636 Y134.569 E9.62213 *117
    13:51:56.195 : ok
    13:51:56.195 : N53 G1 X127.829 Y135.228 E9.99877 *125
    13:51:56.632 : Error:Extruder switched off. Temperature fell too much during print!
    13:51:56.632 : Error:printer stopped due to errors. Fix the error and use M999 to restart. (Temperature is reset. Set it after restarting)
    13:51:57.334 : echo: cold extrusion prevented
    13:51:57.334 : Printer stopped due to errors. Fix the error and use M999 to restart. (Temperature is reset. Set it after restarting)
    13:51:57.443 : N54 M105 *54
    13:52:01.062 : ok
    13:52:01.062 : N55 M117 ETE 52m 28s *83
    13:52:01.062 : N56 M105 *52
    13:52:01.094 : ok
    13:52:01.094 : N57 G1 X123.438 Y135.248 E10.57242 *65
    13:52:01.125 : Printer stopped due to errors. Fix the error and use M999 to restart. (Temperature is reset. Set it after restarting)
    13:52:01.125 : ok
    13:52:01.125 : N58 G1 X105.307 Y135.248 E12.94109 *64
    13:52:01.140 : Printer stopped due to errors. Fix the error and use M999 to restart. (Temperature is reset. Set it after restarting)
    13:52:01.140 : ok

    ... and so on....
     
    #46 Chris Nichols, Jan 17, 2015
  7. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    Definitely a thermistor issue. Check all your connections. If everything is good then it could be the thermistor
     
    #47 Mike Kelly, Jan 17, 2015
  8. Chris Nichols

    Chris Nichols New Member

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    Update - I manually brought just the hot end up to temp and then moved it on the X axis and immediately got "Extruder switched off".
     
    #48 Chris Nichols, Jan 17, 2015
  9. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Yea loose connection or bad connection in the wire bundle to the thermistor or a thermistor that is going defective (likely just a loose wire).
     
    #49 mark tomlinson, Jan 17, 2015
  10. Chris Nichols

    Chris Nichols New Member

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    Seems to happen once temp gets up to around 160.
    I think I see the problem... green wires, right? They are very bent, maybe even broken.

    If it is, I'm guessing I will need to remove the kapton tape and re-wire the thermistor?

    20150117_142618 (1).jpg
     
    #50 Chris Nichols, Jan 17, 2015
  11. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Pretty sure. Been a long time since I looked at a J-Head, the heater cores are more obvious (much heavier gauge wire) on the all-metal units.
     
    #51 mark tomlinson, Jan 17, 2015
  12. Chris Nichols

    Chris Nichols New Member

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    Any ideas on where I can find some instructions? I can probably figure it out, but I like directions when I can find them.
    Also, I notice a lot of folks upgrade their hotend... something you recommend?

    Thanks for the help today.
     
    #52 Chris Nichols, Jan 17, 2015
  13. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    There are two screws at the top of the hotend (see pic) that should be removed. This will let you take the entire hotend off.

    I took two pictures one from each side (just to see hot is relates to hotend) but there are two hexhead screws that you can see in the second picture. (the ones right about the red/black wire)
    With those removed the hotend will come right off (you still need to disconnect the wires for it from the bundle/loom).

    Yea, I would totally suggest an E3D. Best one out there. If you are going to tear it all apart and relevel, that is worth the time.
     

    Attached Files:

    #53 mark tomlinson, Jan 17, 2015
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  14. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    The only thing to remember is that once you upgrade to the all-metal hotend you are likely going to want to add an oiler if you print with PLA.
    Simple enough to do and you can wait and see if you need it (if you would rather) since you can always just use a paper-towel, some oil and a rubber-band in the interim if you do need one.
     
    #54 mark tomlinson, Jan 17, 2015
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  15. Chris Nichols

    Chris Nichols New Member

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    I will see what I can do short-term and look into the E3D.
    Thanks again for the help.
     
    #55 Chris Nichols, Jan 17, 2015
  16. Francois

    Francois New Member

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    Yes, a friend with robo3d printer have buy e3v v6, and it is very good for new attachement of thermistor for this version.
    May be it is the same problem for me.
    I will try to post my log next time. I must stop my tetst for now.
    Thanks you for your help.
    I will try to change autofuse, first, and if it is stop again, i will change head. For now I have v5 from E3D, maybe thermistor is a probelm too.
     
    #56 Francois, Jan 17, 2015
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  17. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    @Printed Solid sells the metal stud thermistors for the E3D.
    Far sturdier.
     
    #57 mark tomlinson, Jan 17, 2015
  18. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    Wow it's always a bit shocking to see those grey J-heads. Kinda like seeing an endangered species in the wild.

    The E3Dv6 is a HUGE upgrade compared to that.
     
    #58 Mike Kelly, Jan 17, 2015
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  19. Chris Nichols

    Chris Nichols New Member

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    So much for keeping it "stock". ;)
    It would be like having an Apple I with the wood case. :)

    Ordered the E3Dv6 last night.
    I was able to remove the two screws (phillips head BTW - will look at getting some hex replacements), the green turned out to be some kind of thermal protection. I took an Xacto knife and carefully cut lengthwise down the black about 1/32 or so and exposed the soldered connection to the thermistor wire. The thermistor wire wasn't even attached... looks like it might be where the problem was.

    I decided that even though I could easily fix it, it will probably happen again. I did like the way the E3D is constructed, so I went for it. We'll see how it goes.

    Thanks for the input!
    Merci, Francois!
     
    #59 Chris Nichols, Jan 18, 2015
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