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Solved Extruder Motor Stops

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by KTMDirtFace, Feb 25, 2016.

  1. KTMDirtFace

    KTMDirtFace Well-Known Member

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    Not sure whats going on here, I just rebuilt my robo3d with some upgrades. ( Self alinging brass bushingbearings, per Waldo's post in the mod section )

    I'm trying to print PLA/PHA, and suddently its making a "thud" type noise and the extruder motor will fully stop for a second. Its not in a spot that it should be doing any retraction, so I don't know whats up.

    Here is a video. ( click on it ) Watch for when the extruder gear just stops moving.
    Also I'm not quite sure where that "Thud" noise is coming from, I think its the extruder but i'm not sure. If I just open simplify3d and connect and extrude a ton of material it doesn't seem to happen.

    The stupid clicking noise in the video is the filament getting dragged on the wire chain..I need to remount the wire chain, but i tried holding it by hand out of the way and thats not the cause.
    [​IMG]

    Here is a picture, when it stops it ends up leaving these unprinted gaps/lines.
    [​IMG]

    On another note, just after I took the above picture on the next layer it was shifted on the Y axis, wayyyy off the location it should be. Belts are tight and look aligned.. etc.

    Edit: It also doesn't seem to happen on the first layer, I may be over extruding, trying now bumping the extrusion mutiplier down a bit.
     
    #1 KTMDirtFace, Feb 25, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2016
  2. KTMDirtFace

    KTMDirtFace Well-Known Member

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    Tried turning retration off., the motor still stops randomly for a second.

    I don't know what its deal is.
     
  3. KTMDirtFace

    KTMDirtFace Well-Known Member

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    I tried switching to PLA, to see if that would work. Extruder still stops randomly on the 2nd layer and above.

    Also I get these weird blobs on the first layer, this may be some other problem but I have never been able to figure out the cause or solution for this.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    That almost looks like a leveling issue (the one side is lower than the other).
     
  5. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    And adhesion.

    @KTMDirtFace do you have an IR thermometer? I was mucking around with mine a couple of days ago and here is something I knew anecdotally but never measured. I had my bed set to 80°C, measured the temp right in the middle and it read 86°C (I'll accept that), at the robo3d.com text it measured 80°C (still not bad, just not great) at the word CAUTION it only measured 47°C.

    It is no wonder larger prints have issues with bed adhesion! :mad:

    Because our beds are glass (not a bad thing) the temps drop off considerably when nearing the edges of the heated area and beyond. Just keep that in mind when you lay out parts on the print bed.
     
  6. KTMDirtFace

    KTMDirtFace Well-Known Member

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    I'll try fixing the leveling again. But I still have no idea why the extruder just stops for a second randomly. The very first picture in the post is actually a video link click it.

    I do have an IR therm..somewhere i'll have to find it. don't think thats my problem though.
     
    #6 KTMDirtFace, Feb 26, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2016
  7. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Check the comm log if you are printing over USB, try printing from the SD card as well. See if that changes things.
     
  8. KTMDirtFace

    KTMDirtFace Well-Known Member

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    Printing from LCD/SD card.
     
  9. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    That complicates things because most LCD displays won't help you see any errors.
    Only suggestion I have is to try it over USB and see if it still happens. In theory it could be an issue reading the SD card, but that is usually all-or-nothing.
     
    KTMDirtFace likes this.
  10. KTMDirtFace

    KTMDirtFace Well-Known Member

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    I will try USB and OctoPrint, and see if it still happens, thanks.
     
  11. KTMDirtFace

    KTMDirtFace Well-Known Member

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    The bumps and weirdness seems to be from bed levling.. as you suspected.

    As for the extruder stopping I have not figured that out yet? Unless there was so much back pressure it stopped from the nozzle being so close? I don't know.. still testing. ( did it on USB and octo pi, but i also had bump issues on the right side of the print again )

    How can I fix the right side of my bed ALWAYS printing closer than the right. I have tried about 20 times to level it with a sheet of paper holding one lead screw..while turning the other until paper just slides under each side. But that doesn't seem to fix anything. I think the reason is because when it probes the bed the left side trigger ALWAYS clicks before the right because of the weight of the motor on the right. I don't know how to solve that problem. I have tried skewing it so that the left side can fit one sheet of paper and the right can fit 2+... still does the same thing when printing. right side is always way more squished.

    I just did another print, with the z offset and first layer height heigher than normal ( -1.1 instead of -0.9 or -1. ).. but I had to print it on Zebra Skin, otherwise the left side of the print wont stick. So it kinda worked but the right side of the print is still having those bumps, and is too smashed down. Good note is the extruder never did its random stops.

    So it seem the root of my issue is I can't get the auto bed leveling to work left to right correctly.
     
    #11 KTMDirtFace, Mar 1, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2016
  12. woferry

    woferry Member

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    I don't think that should be the case. It certainly isn't true for my R1+plus. When the extruder is leveling on the left my left switch definitely trips first, when it's on the right the right trips first, and in the center the bar stays balanced (doesn't tilt) and both trip at basically the same time. Sure there's more weight on the right side of the carriage, but if the vertical bearings are doing their job the carriage shouldn't be able to tilt that much I think (or at least that seems to be the case for me). So I'd wonder if there's something wrong with your bearings and they're more loose or something that is letting the carriage tilt more than it should. Maybe the plastic around the bearing has cracked/expanded?

    I guess you could also try to weigh-down the left-side of the carriage to offset the motor weight on the right, the Z axis is slow so some extra mass there really shouldn't cause any issues with operation I'd think, unlike adding weight to the bed or X carriage which could more easily affect acceleration on X or Y (probably even worse since those axes use belts while Z is direct-drive).

    Probably worth asking, what is the output from the G29 command when it's run? I.e. how close to level is it reporting the bed?

    - Will
     
  13. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    I had to shim my bed to have auto level need to do less compensation. That may help ?
     
  14. KTMDirtFace

    KTMDirtFace Well-Known Member

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    Code:
    Send: G29
    Recv: Bed x: 15.00 y: 20.00 z: -0.20
    Recv: Bed x: 110.00 y: 20.00 z: 0.09
    Recv: Bed x: 205.00 y: 20.00 z: -0.13
    Recv: Bed x: 205.00 y: 125.00 z: -0.40
    Recv: Bed x: 110.00 y: 125.00 z: -0.11
    Recv: Bed x: 15.00 y: 125.00 z: -0.29
    Recv: Bed x: 15.00 y: 230.00 z: -0.11
    Recv: Bed x: 110.00 y: 230.00 z: 0.01
    Recv: Bed x: 205.00 y: 230.00 z: -0.26
    Recv: Eqn coefficients: a: -0.00 b: -0.00 d: -0.10
    Recv: planeNormal x: 0.00 y: 0.00 z: 1.00
    Recv: ok
    Recv: echo:endstops hit: Z:-0.26
    Send: M105
    
     
  15. KTMDirtFace

    KTMDirtFace Well-Known Member

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    It is level with the paper test on each side. But the auto level just appears in my eyes to press the nozzle down much harder and flexes the entire bed when its on the left side, because the whole carriage assembly rocks before the right side switch lifts to disengage. If that makes any sense. Its been like this for quite awhile, and I cant figure out how to fix it.
     
  16. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    I'm having a hard time picturing it, I'm assuming your magnets are all in place as they should be. To get mind as level as possible I used adhesive backed shims and mine during the auto level now shows less than .02 difference between outside readings. I think others have it as close as .01. I used an indicator on my x carriage and shimmed the difference it showed as well as the difference the auto level compensation reported(the math on my machine came out about the same with the indicator as the auto level showed). I'm sure this won't be the case on all machines but made a huge difference on my machine
     
  17. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    I think misunderstood what you were saying, can you check the brass nuts and ensure they are seated correctly and the y rails aren't loose or broken on the side your seeing the extra flex
     
  18. KTMDirtFace

    KTMDirtFace Well-Known Member

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    Brass nuts are good, Y rails are good, i just replaced the Y bearings with Waldo's Y blocks and got the self aligning brass bearings. Though I had this issue with the stock stuff too, so thats not the problem.

    EDIT: Hmm I swear i checked this a bunch of times but it looks like somehow my Z switches got out of sync again so it was tilted. Running a print now maybe its fixed.
     
    #18 KTMDirtFace, Mar 1, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2016
  19. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    :) I can't tell you how many times them boogers have got out of wack on me. Once your all done I'd verify the shims to see if you need them or not. It's my understanding most robots can benefit from them
     
  20. KTMDirtFace

    KTMDirtFace Well-Known Member

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    Nope same problem failing on the right side of print again..getting way to squished. I was really hoping that was the problem but it made no diffrence. I have my zoffset so high im getting bad prints on the left side and the right side is so smashed it wont extrude... ugg.

    [​IMG]
     
    #20 KTMDirtFace, Mar 1, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2016

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