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First day blues - can't get anything to extrude - help pls!

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by kojacker, Nov 9, 2013.

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  1. kojacker

    kojacker New Member

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    (Edit: Sorted now - it appears it was catching on something in the extruder)

    Hi, I received my RoBo3d this week and took today to set up. Everything went well up until the point when I feed in the plastic. Repetier is telling me the temperature is 200 and I can feel a glowing heat when my hand is nearby so I know it's on, but feeding the plastic into the hole in the extruder seems to come to a halt. The video says to apply pressure until the melted plastic comes out, however I'm putting all my force and it seems to come to a dead stop an inch or so into the hole and refuses to go any further. When I take it back out the end doesn't seem warm at all so im unsure how close it got to the heated print head. Right now I've no idea what next to try to troubleshoot this, does anyone with experience of extruders etc have some ideas for me?

    Im using the sample PLA which came in the box.

    Many thanks.
     

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    #1 kojacker, Nov 9, 2013
  2. David Mortlock

    David Mortlock Active Member

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    I found that trimming the end of the filament at an angle and twisting it when you come to a stop helps when feeding it.
     
    #2 David Mortlock, Nov 9, 2013
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  3. Seshan

    Seshan Active Member

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    If it's only going in a inch from that top hole that means it's not even making it into the nozzle, there could be something blocking it, You can try removing the nozzle by removing the two screws on the left side of the extruder.
     
    #3 Seshan, Nov 9, 2013
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  4. David Mortlock

    David Mortlock Active Member

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    I think you will find it is just catching on the top of the extruder where the peek joins it. I would try trimming and twisting before you remove the extruder.
     
    #4 David Mortlock, Nov 9, 2013
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  5. kojacker

    kojacker New Member

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    Thanks David and Seshan, I think David got it - I wriggled it around a bit and suddenly it dropped further down. Im now able to get it to extrude out the bottom and Im trying my first print - a Mr Jaws - havent had any luck getting the pastic on the plate yet but I'll keep at it :)

    Thanks again!
     
    #5 kojacker, Nov 9, 2013
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  6. David Mortlock

    David Mortlock Active Member

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    You're welcome kojacker. Best of luck with the printing.
     
    #6 David Mortlock, Nov 9, 2013
  7. Jason Chinsen

    Jason Chinsen New Member

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    I am having the same issue. I used up the PLA that came with the printer and ordered two new 1.75mm spools. Once I got the new spools I cut the new PLA on an angle and wiggled it a little, but no love. I have the extruder set to 200 oC then to 220 oC, but still no love :(

    Any suggestions would be great!

    Thanks in advance
    Jason.
     
    #7 Jason Chinsen, Nov 18, 2013
  8. tesseract

    tesseract Moderator
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    OK two issues going on in this thread first I am glad the OP got the filament in the some time it takes just a little wiggle and it drops right downad you wil get accustomed to it if you have trouble getting teh prints to stick I would lay odds your z axis height is too far from the bed making the nozzle too high this is the case well over 98% of the time with novice 3d printers so double and triple check.

    I have a process I can teach anyone who wants to learns it and has helped dozens of people out so far just get a hold of me.

    Jason first of all the first temp is usually the higher of the two and 200 is close to the max for PLA with most people usually it is 200 or below you are nearing the max temp allowed for the extruder of 230 when you set it to 220 so be careful.

    Also can you send a pic of the extruder as you are trying to load it into the extruder and also a screen shot of repetier at that time. That could help figure out what is wrong
     
    #8 tesseract, Nov 18, 2013
  9. Jason Chinsen

    Jason Chinsen New Member

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    Hello Tesseract,

    please find attached the photos of the extruder that you requested. Note that the two bolts are not on the feeder as I am trying to manually feed the new PLA into the extruder for the "first time".

    From the User Guide it says the following:

    This is the part that I am having an issue with :(

    I am not at home right now so I can't take a screenie of repetier, but I do recall that the temp line was at 220oC
     

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    #9 Jason Chinsen, Nov 19, 2013
  10. kojacker

    kojacker New Member

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    Hi Jason, it does sound like it could be catching the same as mine was. I havent had the problem since that post, I just keep with the wriggling until the plastic drops down further. It can take a little while sometimes. I was printing at 190 (I only tried PLA so far, I think 220 is for ABS) so your temperature should be more than enough. Have you tried extruding out anything that could be left inside in case a piece of the previous plastic is still in there blocking your new PLA from going in? If your hand is close (not too close obviously) to the heat end can you feel it is heating up ok?

    Thanks tesseract. My print head position was fine I believe, the first layer was going onto the glass but then just followed around with the print head rather than staying put. I tried heating the bed a little as the room was cold, and then tried hair spray. Nothing worked until I tried masking tape, now it sticks very well. Almost too well - it takes a lot of force to rip the tape off the bed again. Im going to replace it with frog tape which isn't stuck as firmly to the bed apparently.
     
    #10 kojacker, Nov 19, 2013
  11. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Not everyone does it, but I have found that using blue painters tape and a coat of glue stick works regardless of the filament type (PLA or ABS).
     
    #11 mark tomlinson, Nov 19, 2013
  12. Jason Chinsen

    Jason Chinsen New Member

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    Hello Kojacker,

    Heat is up and I did try to use the new PLA to push any of the old stuff trough both by hand and with the repetier software.

    I will keep wiggling and see if I helps

    Thanks,
    Jason.
     
    #12 Jason Chinsen, Nov 19, 2013
  13. Jason Chinsen

    Jason Chinsen New Member

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    It is still not working, after about 30min last night of wiggling cutting the 1.75mm PLA to a few diff angles nothing seems to be working. I think maybe the old PLA is stuck. Are there any suggested ways of cleaning out the extruder?
     
    #13 Jason Chinsen, Nov 20, 2013
  14. tesseract

    tesseract Moderator
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    Would it be possible to open the top of the extruder up and get a pic of the hole the filament goes into
    We may have some other options if we could see that
     
    #14 tesseract, Nov 20, 2013
  15. Jason Chinsen

    Jason Chinsen New Member

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    One from the top and one from the bottom
     

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    #15 Jason Chinsen, Nov 20, 2013
  16. Jason Chinsen

    Jason Chinsen New Member

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    bump
     
    #16 Jason Chinsen, Nov 30, 2013
  17. tesseract

    tesseract Moderator
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    Jason the next time you put the filament in can you check and see how much is actually going in it should be about 5cm let us know it will tell us where things may be getting stuck
     
    #17 tesseract, Nov 30, 2013
  18. Jason Chinsen

    Jason Chinsen New Member

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    Hello Tesseract,

    after some wiggling the most that goes in is about 3cm to 3.5cm. If I was to guess the old PLA may be suck ..

    Thanks,
    Jason.
     
    #18 Jason Chinsen, Dec 1, 2013
  19. tesseract

    tesseract Moderator
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    that would probably be a good guess It should go down about 5cm.

    It looks like you have a blockage of some sort right at the brass block. Here is teh thing that part is a simple screw on screw off part BUT it also houses all the critical aspects to the hotend the heater and the thermistor AND the attached wiring.

    You are also at a catch22 point You are most likely going to have to remove the hot end so you can get easy access to it, disassemble it(brass block--hotend-- form the plastic piece--cold end--) to get access to the blockage. At the same time trying to not tear up the wiring. If it is put together correctly it should NOT be easy meaning if it is not really tight leaks can occur right at this point. So if it is easy you save yourself another potential issue by making sure it is very tight when you are done. Most likely you will end up removing the thermistor at least which is the most easily broken to get a clean way to get the brass block off so you can get to the blockage and then put the thermistor back in during reassembly secure it and you are good to go.

    This is a lot of work but can be successfully done just take your time and you will back to the stock extruder assembly that came with the printer.

    Now the other side of the catch22
    If you complete the above process successfully you will as I said be back to the stock configuration. Now if your intention is to stick mainly with PLA and some ABS you will be setup well but if you wanted to expand the next logical step would be the all metal hotend which will handle a much wider variety of material and temps. The main point though is if you decide to switch the above process will pretty much need to be repeated so if you have to do it this time you could save teh hassle next time by doing upgrading right now to the all metal version (E3D has a good one) so you could fix your with all this work and have a limited print window or upgrade to the capability of more materials and only have the additional work of hooking up the new wiring.



    if you were on the fence about upgrading the hot end and the printer was working fine I could see the there could be a questions due to the work involved but since you are going to have to do most of the work already because of the blockage doing it once is far better than doing it twice.

    Just my opinion but I think the upgrading at this point is well worth it
     
    #19 tesseract, Dec 1, 2013
  20. Jason Chinsen

    Jason Chinsen New Member

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    Thanks Tesseract.

    Do you have a link to the e3d so that I can gage how much it would be. Also would it come with the heated bed for ABS?

    Thanks,
    Jason.
     
    #20 Jason Chinsen, Dec 2, 2013
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