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First Layer Issues

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Lew, Jan 4, 2014.

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  1. Lew

    Lew Member

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    After receiving our printer, the first few days were great. Almost no problems and prints were working pretty well. But after a few days, I started having several issues. Specifically, the outer loops and the first layers failed to stick, the extrusion didn't start immediately, and soon the extruder started dragging the print around and globbing around the hot end.
    I am using the Slic3r settings recommended for PLA in the setup video settings, although tweaking the first layer parameters made little or no difference. The bed has been leveled and the extruder head is within .3mm of the bed at Z home.
    Attached is a video of the start of the 5mm calibration cube print. It is clear the problems I'm having. Can anyone recommend a fix, or tell me what has gone wrong?
    Thanks in advance.
     

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  2. Lew

    Lew Member

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    In case it wasn't clear on my message above, The material is PLA, the bed temp is set to the recommended 0, the extruder temp is 200 for the first few layers and 190 thereafter. The bed is lined with 3M blue painter's tape.
     
  3. tesseract

    tesseract Moderator
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    the symptoms you are describing actually mean you are starting you too high. If you want look me up on Skype and I can help get you set up it is not quite as simple as the start up guide implies.

    My Skype info is below in my signature
     
  4. Lew

    Lew Member

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    Thanks, Tesseract. I have signed up for Skype and will contact you later this afternoon - after 2 PM your time.
     
  5. Lew

    Lew Member

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    Three big cheers to Tesseract for help with this issue!! After spending a couple hours trying to settle the printer down and get the bed leveled, he was finally able to educate me enough on the procedure for leveling the bed and adjusting the Z limit switch. Today, armed with that knowledge, I was able to make a few minor adjustments and get the printer to lay down a good (nay, perfect) track of PLA. It is now printing flawlessly.

    Many thanks, again.
     
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  6. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Yea, the man knows how to setup the printer :)
     
  7. tesseract

    tesseract Moderator
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    Glad it is working Lew , you're welcome.

    Thanks for the cudos Mark
     
  8. Lew

    Lew Member

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    It had been working well, after my post above .... until yesterday. The problem now is that after 6 or 7 layers, the extruder starts dragging into the print. After I abort the print, I check the Z height and find that it has dropped.
    When I start, the bed is level and the Z home height is perfect, but after I abort, the extruder is hard down on the bed.
    The Z limit switch is oriented correctly and seems down firmly on the support tube.
    I simply cannot see what is changing.
    Anyone?
     
  9. Melody Bliss

    Melody Bliss New Member

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    Lew, are you sure the Z axis nuts that the X carriage sits upon are fully within their enclosures? You should not be able to see them at all and when you press down on the left and right side right next to the threaded rods, you should not be able to cause the X carriage to move down.
     
  10. Lew

    Lew Member

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    There is ever so slight movement in the Z axis. However, the motion seems to be in the expansion and contraction of the couplings between the motors and the threaded rods. The nuts seem full home with no lost motion there.
     
  11. Billm

    Billm Member

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    I experience the same thing. I have a dial indicator set up that lays on the two rods for the x axis and when i get everything level and height set to .003" i zero the dial indicator. after a print the dial indicator does not come back to 0. i then have to level and reset the z switch. very frustating!
     
  12. warlocke

    warlocke Active Member

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    I noticed that the screw for my Z-level switch was very loose and had lots of thread play.
    So I added a hex nut to the top and bottom of the screw.
    When I got my Z-height set I just lock down the nuts and no more movement.
    It's an extra pain to readjust, but I rarely have to now.
     
  13. Lew

    Lew Member

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    The Z-level switch on mine is plenty snug. But the problem seems to start when the Z axis is at around 1/2" high. It's like the Z axis slips (doesn't go higher) so it starts bumping in to the previous layers. Then when the home position is sought, the extruder is now too low. When I readjust things again, it starts all over on the next print.
     
  14. tesseract

    tesseract Moderator
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    On question does this happen on multiple prints are is it the same one

    Also once you get it set try just raising and lowering the z axis without print so it goes above and below the point at which you say this occurs I think it was 1/2 inch
    See if there is an actual physical issue with it as it moves past that point
     
  15. Lew

    Lew Member

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    OK, I have spent several days troubleshooting and solving problems.
    The slipping Z-axis seems to have been solved by loosening one of the threaded rods from the coupler and removing a bunch of teflon tape which had not been put down into the coupler at all well. I replaced with new teflon tape and tightened the screws on the coupler.
    I have also spent hours getting the bed leveled and printing with a perfect looking skirt. However, there is still a considerable difference in the extruder clearance across various parts of the bed. If the center is correct, a couple of the corners are too high (but not such that can be solved by adjusting the Z-axis threaded rods) so the extruder drags across the bed at those points.
    My last (current) problem is that while printing in PLA, there is significant "stringing" whenever the extruder makes corners or lifts. I am assuming this has to do with extruder temperature. Sometimes it is so bad that the extruder bumps into those strings and actually knocks the print loose of the bed.
    I'll continue to test various temperatures, but I'm open to any other suggestions.
     
  16. Peter Krska

    Peter Krska Active Member

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    Here is a great video showing what problems you are experiencing:

    The following video shows what happens with no heat bed and no adhesive added to the glass. It depicts what can typically happen when printing on a non-sticky platform with no heat bed – Disaster!


    Original source has a lot of vital information to getting a good print:
    http://bootsindustries.com/portfolio-item/heat-bed-3d-printing/
     
  17. Lew

    Lew Member

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    Good information, Peter. But I'm still having stringing issues. I lowered the extruder temp to 190/185 (first/subsequent layers) and still seeing oozing and stringing. I didn't see anything on your recommended web site that addresses that issue, other than temps.
     
  18. tesseract

    tesseract Moderator
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    There is a setting in yor profiles that is labeled avoid crossing perimeters and it should be check that will reduce the amount of strings. The main reason you get strings is that the temperature is a bit warm try adjusting the m temp down 1 degree or two and see how it goes. The other aspect that can affectstring somewhat is retraction so you can play with those things a bit as well.

    Good find on the teflon tape. I never have had to work on my couplers so I do not know what is even inside of mine
     
  19. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    +1 on stringing = too hot (for PLA)
    If you can manage to print the bed leveler they help getting the bed overall more level, period.
    It is still possible that there may be minute differences at the far perimeters.

    Are you using the glass bed or no?
     
  20. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Today was the first time I did a print that was (essentially) as big as the bed would allow. I had to really fiddle with it to get it working correctly at all four corners and the middle. My 'level' bed was not quite as level as I thought :)

    Got is working though with some effort and now the bed is level...
     
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