1. Got a question or need help troubleshooting? Post to the troubleshooting forum or Search the forums!

Unresolved Ghosting and overhangs.

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Oisin, Apr 28, 2016.

  1. Oisin

    Oisin Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2015
    Messages:
    384
    Likes Received:
    23
    Hi guys. I've been seeing a lot of ghosting on my prints.

    I'm printing with PLA at 195C and the bed at 50C at 40mm/s. I have lowered the acceleration considerably in the config file for the printer based on the advise in a previous thread. I think it was maybe 800 to begin with and I lowered it to 300 but it was a few months ago so I don't remember exactly what it's baseline value was. I've also tightened the belt.

    You can see an example of what I mean in the print below.

    I've also noticed that my printer can't do overhangs. Full stop can't do them no matter how shallow the angle. You can see that's pretty evident in the images below too. Does anyone have any advice on printing overhangs without the effect you can see around the bottom of the print? I have dual cooling fans that are on 100% after the first few layers.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    23,915
    Likes Received:
    7,338
    What slicer?

    They should be workable, heck even full on bridging 2-3 inches is possible.

    If overhangs are really failing perhaps try supports down there at the bottom and see if you can get it looking better.
     
  3. Oisin

    Oisin Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2015
    Messages:
    384
    Likes Received:
    23
    Simplify3D.

    You can sort of see in the image that on every diamond, the upper two angles have the same issue. I couldn't have used supports on the whole things since it wouldn't be reasonable for cleanup. I saw all the images on Thingiverse of other prints and I didn't notice any having the same issue as me (plenty had other issues though).
     
    pitcjd01 likes this.
  4. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    23,915
    Likes Received:
    7,338
    Simplify3D supports are not a clean up issue.
    Mine are invisibly removable.

    About the only suggestion I have is to calibrate the extruder,

     
    pitcjd01 likes this.
  5. Oisin

    Oisin Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2015
    Messages:
    384
    Likes Received:
    23
    I know the supports are easy to remove, but when there's 200 of them I don't fancy it.

    Extruder calibration gets suggested every time anybody posts a print quality issue. I've tried it 4 times. Every time I get the same answer for steps (881) and when I put it in, it doesn't work nearly as well as the default 723. It overextrudes like crazy.

    I appreciate the ideas though!
     
  6. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    23,915
    Likes Received:
    7,338
    You have slain all of the obvious dragons.
    Experimentation is about all that you have left.
    I haven't had that sort of artifact on my printing, if you have a smaller model that demonstrates some of this I would be happy to try and replicate it. That one model is just a bit too much :)
     
  7. Oisin

    Oisin Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2015
    Messages:
    384
    Likes Received:
    23
    The first image is at 100 microns and the second is at 50. There aren't too many differences the layer height made to the ghosting. You can see it happens across the entire face of the cube. I wonder if it's a vibration within the x axis stepper motor? I included the exact gcode files that printed those cubes.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    23,915
    Likes Received:
    7,338
    The Gcode is likely not going to work unmodified, but I will tweak it to get the startup code right and see.
     
  9. Oisin

    Oisin Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2015
    Messages:
    384
    Likes Received:
    23
    Oh really? Sorry. It's just the standard calibration cube. Here's the stl.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    23,915
    Likes Received:
    7,338
    Your corners are not very sharp either.
    I'd suspect a loose pinion gear on the motor shaft since the amount of deflection is small.

    Let me see about getting these tweaked and printed.
    Working on the one now.
     
  11. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    23,915
    Likes Received:
    7,338
    It is oK, I just used your GCode with the default of -1 offset on the printer I have that is closest.
    One of mine is -0.9 and the other -0.6

    The 0.1 version is printing now

    P.S. The first layer looks close enough so I am sure the -.1 difference is fine :)
     
  12. Oisin

    Oisin Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2015
    Messages:
    384
    Likes Received:
    23
    I hadn't noticed the corners but if they can be better then that's great!

    Do you think a minute bounce in the x-axis belt could cause the rippling effect you can see in the image? Would another material be better? I could also swap out the x axis stepper motor for a spare motor I have.

    Thanks very much for the time you're taking to help me improve my prints!
     
  13. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    23,915
    Likes Received:
    7,338
    Any bounce is a bad thing. The belt teeth will constrain the bounce a lot (unless it is loose). That is why slowing the acceleration helps since there is less momentum to deal with.

    The corners like that are usually (IMHO) from not the belt being loose, but rather the drive gear for that axis. Drive belts being loose will usually result in much larger jumps when the belt slips/skips.

    Sadly they don't appear to use loctite when they assemble the printers and the drive sprockets can work loose on the motor shaft and turn slightly. I loctite mine.
     
  14. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    23,915
    Likes Received:
    7,338
    OK, not sure what angle you need to see

    Small Cube1.jpg
     
  15. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    23,915
    Likes Received:
    7,338
    I guess you had a raft on there. I never use that as it really leaves a rough bottom. I did not try to remove that.
     
  16. Oisin

    Oisin Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2015
    Messages:
    384
    Likes Received:
    23
    I only use a raft because my printer bed seems to have some sort of tectonic activity going on where it magically changes height periodically. I don't like them either.

    From what I can see from your picture, the little waves are not present on your print. Here is a far better example of what I'm experiencing. I printed this a little while ago at 100 microns.

    Do you think vibration of the x axis stepper motor or some other source of vibration could be the cause? I'm drawing a bit of a blank on it.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Oisin

    Oisin Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2015
    Messages:
    384
    Likes Received:
    23
    Definitely appears to be a sort of constant resonance as it is perfectly regular. It doesn't elongate towards the end of a line or anything which would indicate acceleration isn't affecting it.
     
  18. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    23,915
    Likes Received:
    7,338
    Hmm, it is pretty small. Most times I wouldn't even notice that since I would be prepping a finish (paint) on it.

    I did print that one on the currently un-busy printer (the one with the 0.3 nozzle) but other than that it is pretty much standard (it is an E3D v6). The other one is a 0.8 volcano so even if it were free ATM moment the comparison would be further out.
     
  19. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    23,915
    Likes Received:
    7,338
    You could slow it down overall as well (reduce the print speed). Mine is set at 2500 mm/min
     
  20. Oisin

    Oisin Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2015
    Messages:
    384
    Likes Received:
    23
    The 50 micron cube was printed at 1500mm/min. The 100 micron cube was the same. The vase was printed at 2400mm/min. I have an E3D v6 with a 0.25mm nozzle.

    I don't tend to paint my prints since they're generally just for mockups anyway. It's just nice to have things look good if you're presenting them to somebody.
     

Share This Page