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Joel Telling's video on heat creep in the R2

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by sgomes, Sep 6, 2017.

  1. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    I think most people that have used a MK2 would say yes. It was a large deciding factor in not doing the kickstarter for the R2 for me. prusa does fine at 800.00. R2 at 1500. R2 is a bit taller I think but I have large format machines for that. If I was adding equipment it would likely be another couple prusa for the money.
     
  2. Hanover

    Hanover Member

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    I'm still within my return window at Amazon... I got the R2 when I was still new to all this since it seemed like the most affordable consumer friendly printer. Now that I know a lot more about the hardware I just feel like I would have been better off with an original Prusa to begin with. I could get that 4th printer if I sent the R2 back. Now that I know what I'm doing, the more and more I realize that the R2 isn't as easy to maintain as the Prusa.

    I do like the R2 for it's removable bed and it's larger volume...mechanically its a pretty cool machine, but I have no idea how I would remove/replace the bearings from the extruder, or how I would even find a new extruder if I ever had to replace it. It's not like the Prusa (or the R1+) where I could literally just print one.

    I know it works fine with PLA, and I have two other printers I can use for PETG...but still...I need to make a decision quickly. :)

    Feels weird talking about this on the Robo forum. :)
     
  3. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    The prusa isn't the easiest thing in the world to work on due to how its assembled but it IS an E3DV6 and all the files are available to print spares of all the printed components. There are some people who do not like the Mk2. I like mine just fine. Its no 3k machine, but far better than a 1k machine IMO.

    You'd remove the gantry assembly, slip the rods out of hte holders and slide the extruder carriage off. Then to replace the bearings they are likely pressed in so you'd press then out, then press in the new ones.

    The only reason you could print new parts for the R1 series is because the community designed tested and shared those files. :D The same would have to happen with the R2 as Robo does not release those things (check their thingiverse page for contributions to the R1 series of printable items). Their actual page, not just a thingiverse search, gotta take all the user stuff out :D.

    In the end its your money and do as you want to do with it :D
     
  4. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    I wouldn't. I don't need two printers of the same design or using the same technology. I still think the R2 is priced a bit too high, but I generally like what they are trying to do. I basically just have questions about the implementation.
     
  5. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Depends on how you are using them as well. I have 7 machines all the same. Production, same output, speeds, materials etc. But from a hobby standpoint I almost always bought different brand machines (and still do to this day when adding stuff) for the different pros that machine has over what I already have. Capacity :D. If running production runs for people...they almost always go on the 7 identical.
     
  6. Hanover

    Hanover Member

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    I'm trying to start a 3D printing service as a side business. Seems to be some demand for it in the area of Georgia where I live (Forsyth County). I'm also hoping to sell some stuff on Etsy (using the design skills I learned at school, years ago). I made some cosplay accessories for friends who were going to DragonCon this year as practice.

    I'll probably keep my Robos. The R1+ is fun to tinker with and the R2 is good for larger volume prints.
     
  7. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    I think after the R2 has been out awhile and more 3dp hobbyists pick them up there will be a larger community of upgrades and the such. I think most machines are still under warranty so people are leery of hacking them.
     
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  8. jwmueller

    jwmueller Active Member

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    I like my MK2S's for sure, but the more I use the R2 the better it gets. I have done 0.03mm prints with it for example, plus the bed is flatter compared to my Prusa machines. I run glass beds on them as that is what I am used to and it works better for my product line. I have to run a gcode script for the machine to wait for me to install the glass and clip it into place. So for my use case they are not a push print and forget machine. My FF machines and the R2 are all push play and wait for it to be done, all run glass beds just fine.

    However on sheer price when you talk 4 colors, the R2 gets pricey with a Palette+ in the mix. Compared to the Prusa at ~$1k plus some shipping, plus another $40-$60 for an webcam Octopi setup. (EDIT: Assembled form would be ~$1.2k+ USD)

    R2 you have more Z build volume, both are reliable (so far). Neither are perfect and both have compromises that you learn over time. Prusa has a great library of slic3r settings, but it is easy enough to copy those over to Simplify3D. As a bonus those settings work nicely on the R2 when you talk speeds, temps, and a few other things. So I will look at the Prusa settings to form a base setup in Simplify3D for the R2, normally I don't have to change anything and I get great prints.

    R2 has handled being in my cold house with no adverse effects on warping my PETG prints. Prusa I have to keep enclosed for the same exact print.

    Sorry to go off-topic.

    On topic, I am seeing a larger swing in the extruder temps with the fan shroud in place. I am not running the cooling fans, so I wonder if I have changed the airflow enough to bother the extruder block itself. More testing most now go on! However, I would call that a result. LOL
     
  9. jwmueller

    jwmueller Active Member

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    Here is the "Thing" - unofficially I call it the Robo R2 Fan Flow Generator. This is version 5! ;)


    Edit: New name - Robo R2 Fan Flow Turbulence Editor

    I can really feel some heat being pushed down and out the left-side now.
     
    #29 jwmueller, Sep 13, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
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  10. supercazzola

    supercazzola Active Member

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    Robo sent me a STL file that sort of does the same thing, but it keeps falling out

    [​IMG]


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
     
  11. jwmueller

    jwmueller Active Member

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    To make it easier to find I uploaded it to Thingiverse in STL and OBJ versions, if anyone wants a different file type please let me know.

    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2533094

    I was thinking about changing how it mounts into the hole, depending on what printer is used for the print there might be some variation.
     
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  12. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Step files so people can remix if needed
     
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  13. supercazzola

    supercazzola Active Member

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    Just printed mine (in blue PLA cause that is all that I can print at the moment). I'll try so PETG later tonight using the Flow Turbulence Editor :)

    thanks again
     
  14. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    +1 on Step file or some other format that is actually a 3D model and not a shell like STL or OBJ
     
  15. supercazzola

    supercazzola Active Member

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    I started to save the Fusion 360 files and uploading them for my work, so if someone wants to remix it, they can do it in the Fusion 360, and then share what they do with everyone else.
     
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  16. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    That is perfect, if you can include a step as well for SW and other modeling program users that would be great for users
     
  17. jscottb

    jscottb Member

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    I did just get my R2, but have read and watched about the heat creep issues with the it. I had HC issues on my old printrbot. Between the extruder stepper and the HE, the filament would soften on long prints and clog the cold side. I already had a fan blowing on the HE so I added another that pulled air away as well and that fixed it. I had actually used the part that someone posted here to draw this up.

    Screen Shot 2017-09-15 at 8.05.31 PM.png

    This would allow another fan on the other side to pull hot air out. I think if you do dual struding, this will be a requirement. I have not printed this as of yet and still mulling it over. For me, I would just power the fan externally via a wall wort or the like.
     
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  18. jwmueller

    jwmueller Active Member

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    Step file attached.

    Edit: Running a 40hr PETG print now, have to see how it holds in the hole. If I get to 39hrs and it falls out... LOL
     

    Attached Files:

    #38 jwmueller, Sep 15, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017
  19. jwmueller

    jwmueller Active Member

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    Update, the PETG print was fine and it is now off and running on an 18+hour PLA print (230*C).

    Edit: No issues with the PLA. I think I might have a pulley slipping as I am getting some really minor lines on the edge of the print, but at least I know what axis to look at first.
     
    #39 jwmueller, Sep 20, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
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  20. SteveDjarrell

    SteveDjarrell Active Member

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    So I took the fan duct that is list above in the thread by JWMueller (Great idea by the way), I did modify it a little and added larger fillets on the inside. Thought was to smooth our the air flow a little, don't know if it makes a difference or not. Anyway, I still get what I thought was heat creep just takes longer. Turns out my Extruder motor is getting so hot to the touch that the heat is traveling out the shaft and into the the drive gear and guide so they are heating up. Basically it is softening the filament so when I hit an area of many retracts it heats up and does not grind but rather spins and reduces the diameter to where it can not grab it. Took me a while to figure this out. I have added a heat sync to the motor and that helps but this can not be right. If this were any of my other printers I would know where to reduce the power on the stepper driver to find a cooler running point. I just figured this out so now I am off to figure out how to reduce the voltage, I have not even looked at the new electronics yet. I would assume this is going to be in the firmware like my Ulti-Clone.
     

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