1. Got a question or need help troubleshooting? Post to the troubleshooting forum or Search the forums!

joys of working with abs

Discussion in 'Printing Filament' started by CAMBO3D, Jul 13, 2013.

  1. CAMBO3D

    CAMBO3D New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    642
    Likes Received:
    296
    this print started out great but ending up having to stop the print because it started to warp at the corners.
    CIMG2715.JPG

    so the next print i added what I call "anti-warping discs" to the corners. it worked out great and I thought i was going to actually get a good print.
    CIMG2720.JPG

    CIMG2722.JPG

    Looks great doesnt it? but I ended up having to stop this print also because, while anti-warping discs worked for the corners. The abs started cracking elsewhere right down the middle of the print.

    the joys of working with abs...
    CIMG2723.JPG
     
    #1 CAMBO3D, Jul 13, 2013
  2. Seshan

    Seshan Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    447
    Likes Received:
    153
    Heated build chamber time?
     
    #2 Seshan, Jul 13, 2013
  3. JDM_

    JDM_ New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    548
    Likes Received:
    145
    Cambo I have not had one print lift using AquaNet on the Boro glass.. I understand that the type of print you were doing are prone to lift but Ive done some similar prints with no lifting. Heat bed set to 100c. I am also printing in a how garage which may be helping..
     
    #3 JDM_, Jul 13, 2013
  4. CAMBO3D

    CAMBO3D New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    642
    Likes Received:
    296
    hairspray would not not have done this any good..just so you know abs juice is stronger than hairspray.
     
    #4 CAMBO3D, Jul 13, 2013
  5. JDM_

    JDM_ New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    548
    Likes Received:
    145
    My wife says nothing is stronger than AquaNet.... :p
     
    #5 JDM_, Jul 13, 2013
  6. Printed Solid

    Printed Solid Volunteer Admin
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,605
    Likes Received:
    1,003
    Just to clarify for everybody learning from Cambo's experience. Any treatment to the bed (ABS, Hairspray, PVA, etc) is only going to help prevent the print from peeling off the bed. This part appears to be stuck to the bed quite well. The problem is that it cracked in the middle.

    Cambo, I'm curious to hear your take on cause here. This doesn't looks like a particularly challenging print (at least to the point it was at when it broke). I've seen minor cracks on really big parts with relatively thick walls, but never on anything like that.

    Do you need the strength of the honeycomb fill? Maybe the lines fill pattern would help relieve some of the stresses since it alternates layers.

    Unless you're sitting directly under an AC vent or something, I wouldn't expect that this part would require a heated chamber.

    Maybe some chamfers on the inside of the wall transition away from the plate would reduce the stress due to the change in geometry.
     
    #6 Printed Solid, Jul 13, 2013
  7. CAMBO3D

    CAMBO3D New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    642
    Likes Received:
    296
    I'm not sure what the cause is, im gonna try some other things to see if if comes out any better. Could be a lot of things here. maybe solid infill instead, etc..
     
    #7 CAMBO3D, Jul 13, 2013
  8. tesseract

    tesseract Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,924
    Likes Received:
    533
    OK you guys are scaring me a little I am having enough problems with PLA now I see this

    LOL

    My PLA issues are more electronic I think
     
    #8 tesseract, Jul 13, 2013
    2 people like this.
  9. Harry

    Harry Team ROBO 3D
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    807
    Likes Received:
    180
    LOL jeff
     
    #9 Harry, Jul 14, 2013
  10. Bucky

    Bucky New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Couple of rookie questions.

    What is ABS juice?

    Can I use the diluted PVA mixture (5:1 ratio of Elmer's school glue) from the PLA thread with ABS?

    I haven't had a perfect print yet. Many lifting issues. I'm using .025 aluminum on top of the heated pcb to protect it. Then a light coating of hairspray. Should I drench the surface with hairspray?

    Haven't tried Kapton Tape yet.

    Should I try this?
    http://www.amazon.com/Mil-Kapton-Ta...8&qid=1374487295&sr=8-10&keywords=kapton+tape
     
    #10 Bucky, Jul 22, 2013
  11. Printed Solid

    Printed Solid Volunteer Admin
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,605
    Likes Received:
    1,003
    ABS juice is ABS dissolved in acetone. You're using it to apply a thin layer of ABS to your build plate. The ABS sticks pretty well to itself. Sometimes a little too well...

    I'm not sure about the PVA with ABS. I think I have read about people using it, but haven't tried it myself.

    0.025" seems awfully thin to me. Are you really able to keep it flat? Assuming you are... I would recommend putting kapton over the aluminum, but only for the purpose of protecting the aluminum when you pry your part off. I think most people are using the cricut spatula or some kind of a steel blade, which is harder than the al plate.

    Process for applying the hairspray is to clean bed, apply a thin but complete covering, heat bed until it dries, then repeat a few times. I do 3X coating.
     
    #11 Printed Solid, Jul 22, 2013
  12. Bucky

    Bucky New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks Printed! What thickness plate would you recommend? I ordered a dial indicator to see how flat the bed actually is. Seems pretty flat though using a piece of card stock under the extruder tip. If it turns out to be more than a few thousandths (inch) variance I'll let you know.

    The aluminum may be cheaper than the tape possibly. So if it is only for protection I'll just print directly on the AL plate.
     
    #12 Bucky, Jul 25, 2013
  13. Printed Solid

    Printed Solid Volunteer Admin
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,605
    Likes Received:
    1,003
    When you check your flatness, check it at room temperature AND at build temperature.

    I can't make a recommendation on what you need other than to say that 0.025 seems really thin and I would think that flexure of the heater board would easily drive flexure of the al plate. Somewhere between 1/8" and 1"4" is what seems normal.

    All of this really just boils down to use whatever works for you, but keep other possibilities if whatever you're trying stops working.
     
    #13 Printed Solid, Jul 26, 2013
  14. CAMBO3D

    CAMBO3D New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    642
    Likes Received:
    296
    im not sure about doing this yet, i'm looking into it though.
    Things i'm worried about are the robo components gonna be able to handle at least 80c.

    but I did print this in pla. Even in pla I had trouble with the corners coming undone so I cheated and added pva glue to the corners as you can see in the pictures

    final print temp for pla black came to 210c.
    the color change you see here is where I changed printing temperatures.
    The line between light and dark is where I also changed speeds.
    the black stuff you see underneath is abs juice. (i was experimenting to see how it would work with pla being printed on top of it)
    CIMG2754.JPG CIMG2758.JPG
     
    #14 CAMBO3D, Jul 26, 2013

Share This Page