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Solved Lines/Fibers when printing anything using PLA

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by NaughtyGarfield, May 10, 2016.

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  1. NaughtyGarfield

    NaughtyGarfield Member

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    Good Morning Guys and Gals,

    My first Robo3D Printer and I am using original supplied PLA spool and everything I print either separates or has a lot of lines/fibers that goes from one spot to the next spot.

    I have Robo3D R1+ Printer with Latest Firmware V2
    Software: MatterControl v1.5
    Quality: High
    Temperature Range 200C - 210C

    Any idea or suggestions? Sorry I am fairly new at this, so I might need to learn a lot of terms you guys are about to throw at me. :D
     

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    #1 NaughtyGarfield, May 10, 2016
  2. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Probably a touch too hot.
    PLA and ABS tend to get stringy if you are printing too hot.

    Drop it 5 degrees and try it.

    Too low and you lose interlayer bonding, but too hot and you get strings and a 'melty'* look :)

    You need to use small test models to dial in the best temperature for every spool you use.
    Keep them sealed with desiccant and it will not change much over time.


    * you loose fine details
     
    #2 mark tomlinson, May 10, 2016
  3. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I use this for testing. I it is small (15 min print) but with lots of detail.


    Lots of times people ask for best printing temperatures and that is a suckers game. :)
    Everyone is going to have a different best set of numbers to work with.
     

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    #3 mark tomlinson, May 10, 2016
    Last edited: May 10, 2016
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  4. NaughtyGarfield

    NaughtyGarfield Member

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    Hello Mark,

    Thanks a lot. Let me start on the test file you sent me and see how that goes! :)
     
    #4 NaughtyGarfield, May 10, 2016
  5. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Good luck. I jot the numbers down on the spool since each one may have a slightly different sweet spot.
     
    #5 mark tomlinson, May 10, 2016
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  6. NaughtyGarfield

    NaughtyGarfield Member

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    Thanks for the tip! I will be sure to use your test subject every time I start a new spool and write it down. :)
     
    #6 NaughtyGarfield, May 10, 2016
  7. NaughtyGarfield

    NaughtyGarfield Member

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    Oh Mark, forgot to ask you. Do you use just the Glass or do you prefer to use the supplied glue or blue tape when you print your project?
     
    #7 NaughtyGarfield, May 10, 2016
  8. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Tricky question :)

    I use the bare glass with hairspray, but...
    For the longest time I used blue tape with gluestik.

    The bare glass is a better way to go in my opinion, but for happiness with printing that way you need to make sure your first layer is dialed in perfectly. The blue tape method is more forgiving and will let you get away with a sloppier first layer.

    Another advantage to just the glass is less consumable material to use and a little easier to clean up (every few months I do clean the glass).


    https://printedsolid.com/blogs/news/tagged/first-layer
     
    #8 mark tomlinson, May 10, 2016
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  9. NaughtyGarfield

    NaughtyGarfield Member

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    Hmm.. I will have to try the blue tape then... but I really like the feel of glass. :) Btw, I am done with the test file you sent me. I still have some strings and some excess materials on the model. Is it because it's still too hot? I did this at 190C
     

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    #9 NaughtyGarfield, May 10, 2016
  10. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    The temperature reading is not super high accuracy so, yes... I would drop it a little bit and try again.

    Before going down though (if this PLA) make sure the parts cooling fan is on 100% speed after the 2nd or 3rd layer at the worst (and make sure it is blowing on the part being printed). PLA will get stringy without the cooling fan (worse on smaller parts).

    Since sections of that look nice I would suspect the parts fan.
     
    #10 mark tomlinson, May 10, 2016
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  11. NaughtyGarfield

    NaughtyGarfield Member

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    Hello Mark,

    Thanks for all your help... I tried lowering to 188C and I don't see much difference, while 185 would make the extruder intermittently stop extruding filament and it wouldn't adhere to the model very well, as it might be a little too cold for the PLA.

    Now, my layer fan starts after the 2nd layers and it's on 100%. So not sure why my results still looks stringy and some excess filament stuck on model. :(
     
    #11 NaughtyGarfield, May 10, 2016
  12. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Leave it at 190 then.
    You can try added a ducted fan (print a duct for the fan), but first try increasing the retraction a bit (try a 20% increase and see).
    I'd suggest the retraction first since it is all software.


    (I trust this is not the sample of blue filament they send with the printer, it is a new spool? That stuff was junk...)
     
    #12 mark tomlinson, May 10, 2016
  13. NaughtyGarfield

    NaughtyGarfield Member

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    Hello Mark,

    Thanks for the suggestion, I tried the retraction from default 3 to 5 and to 8 with very slight improvements. I think I need to play around with the settings a bit more.. Also you mentioned about the Blue sample. Are the sample good or are they the junk ones? As I currently have Hatchbox glow in the dark and Robo's wood PLA as my alternative.
     
    #13 NaughtyGarfield, May 10, 2016
  14. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    The blue sample they used to include was (IMHO) trash.
    Some folks had decent results with it, most not.
    If that is what you have been using -- stop and try some real filament before getting too caught up in tweaking :)
     
    #14 mark tomlinson, May 10, 2016
  15. NaughtyGarfield

    NaughtyGarfield Member

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    Ahh... Got it.. Let me try my other ones.. and report back the result. Thank you! :)
     
    #15 NaughtyGarfield, May 10, 2016
  16. NaughtyGarfield

    NaughtyGarfield Member

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    Hello Mark,

    After some digging thru posts, I saw one of your earlier post that shows how to test the best temperature works really well, also I noticed there is a distance before retraction that was set to 20 or 30mm, and the test model you sent me was relative small so the retraction was never activated. After I changed the distance between retraction I noticed much smoother finish model, even though I still see lots of fine strings, but at least the model looks perfect without the gunk or excess like before.. Thank you very much!

    The picture is with new spool of Glow in the dark by Hatchbox, with fine strings removed.
     

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    #16 NaughtyGarfield, May 10, 2016
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  17. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    that looks pretty good!

    I had issue after issue with the sample spool. Had it since october and just now used it all up :D. Given the time you can make it work but man its not worth it lol. I used it up making donated prints for my local school.

    I would strongly suggest on the stock hex doing the dual fan mod (in the mods and upgrades section). It drastically helps with these issues your seeing on small parts. and its CHEAP! :D. My favorite! If nothing else slap a duct on that stock fan just to see the difference, if there is one for your machine. I think it will make you want the dual fan! :D for PLA more cooling the better ! (parts cooling)
     
    #17 Geof, May 11, 2016
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  18. NaughtyGarfield

    NaughtyGarfield Member

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    Hello Geof,

    Sounds good! I am in love with this machine now. :) Having said that, my computer restarted for no reason (maybe windows update) and my almost finished product is ruined.. Took me 15+ hours and it reboot right before I can finish it.. It's supposedly a 19 hour job..

    How do I print with SD card without the computer intervention?

    I saw on the firmware section that says:

    Also added a way to print from the SD card with no computer attached.

    To do this you simply add a robo.gcode to the SD card and place it in the printer. All the motors must be disengaged and the bed must be away from home. When the printer is on and idle, tap the X axis endstop once with your finger. Then you have 2 seconds to push the Y Axis bed back to home position. Once you do this the printer will start printing the robo.gcode on the SD card. If you did not preheat the printer it may take some time to actually start printing.


    What do they mean by all motors must be disengaged and bed must be away from home? Also where is the X axis endstop? Sorry all these noob questions. :D

    Btw, anyone here reading this have the MatterControl T10 tablet? Are they any good or useful?
     
    #18 NaughtyGarfield, May 11, 2016
  19. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    I ditched matter control for Simplify 3D and bought the xxl controller to print SD.

    I cant remember how to print SD exactly on the stock robo. I believe I did it by inserting the sd card, pulling the bed towards me. sliding the carriage to home (the bolt on the carriage that holds your hotend engages a switch on the far left (if lookign at the lettering). the y endstop is "home" the far back away from the robo lettering. The x endstop is "home" far left when looking at the robo lettering on the rods that go left and right (the extruder carriage mentioned above) then with the sd card insertered I had to power on the robo and it started up. I dont think this is how its done anymore :(...


    I strongly suggest the LCD controller. I use the rep rap xxl, some use the full graphics. I like the xxl as there is no firmware modification to do. Unplug the stock wiring on the ramps board, plug in the xxl controller with the included smart adaptor. :D mostly full control of you printer without a computer hooked up and their cheap. I think 70 bucks from printedsolid.com

    Someone who uses the stock SD card might be able to help further. Also not sure how to export to sd from matter control. Sorry buddy I'm not real helpful on this one.
     
    #19 Geof, May 11, 2016
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  20. NaughtyGarfield

    NaughtyGarfield Member

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    Hello Geof,

    Thank you! You have provided great information and saved me countless hours of researching for a controller. Now only if I can find a rep rap xxl somewhere, as printedsolid.com is sold out currently. :D
     
    #20 NaughtyGarfield, May 11, 2016
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