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Unanswered Overhangs and printing with support

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by GAmbrosio, May 12, 2016.

  1. GAmbrosio

    GAmbrosio Active Member

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    I use S3D as my slicer, it is the best IMO, especially after I learned more about how to use it.

    Anyway, regardless of slicer, whenever I print anything with support, for instance a model of a lance or spear that lays horizontally on the bed, etc. or anything which involves supports on the bottom or first layer, the surface print is rough and often loose, meaning loose filament that looks like thicker stringing.

    Having learned a little, thanks to you guys, I am looking at layer bonding. Using PLA pro Hatchbox @ 195C, 50 on the bed, fan is on.

    Should I bump up the extruder temp? 200? Or should I look into thicker supports perhaps? It is like the filament is not getting enough pressure to stick because it is held up by the supports? That or it is not cooling fast enough that the layers are moving stopping it from binding to each other?

    It is pretty consistent, reproducible, as long as I print with the first layer is the support. I guess I can print it vertically on the bed with a brim...But what fun is that? ;) lol

    Seriously, if that's what I must do...Then yeah, can't go around laws of physics after all. :)


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  2. robert sanchez

    robert sanchez Active Member

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    I'm curious to hear feedback on this as well. I've tried dual cooling fans, 0.2 z height layers, 1mm pillar support, even raising the whole thing 1mm off the bed, building with a raft, but its still not what I'd want.

    I've been cheating and I borrowed a handheld 3d printer and am using it to extrude filament to fill in the gaps and then am sanding it down. This is not ideal, but workable.
     
  3. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Probably best posted over here:

    https://forum.simplify3d.com/

    I use the heck out of it and sadly, for me, the defaults work like a champ. I printed a ball in the middle of the air as a proof of concept and it just popped right off of the support pillar that was done and you couldn't tell where it was attached.
     
  4. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    MY suspicion is that it might be related to your first layer leveling or, perhaps, over/under extrusion.
     
  5. GAmbrosio

    GAmbrosio Active Member

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    Mark, mind sharing your support settings? As I may have monkeyed with the defaults just a tad ;)

    Robert, great minds think alike? ;P I have a hatchbox 3D pen, used for the same purpose and for binding printed parts or repairs. Works better than CA on PLA. But again, not ideal.


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    #5 GAmbrosio, May 12, 2016
    Last edited: May 12, 2016
  6. GAmbrosio

    GAmbrosio Active Member

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    Under extruding, perhaps as I have noticed holes when it fills in the top layers...
     
  7. GAmbrosio

    GAmbrosio Active Member

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  8. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    If you need a process file, let me know. If you create a new process it should have all the defaults in there, but if you need one I can post it.
     
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  9. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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  10. GAmbrosio

    GAmbrosio Active Member

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    Mark, I wonder if the ball makes a difference v. a more flat object like a lance or spear


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  11. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    <shrug> Good point, I do not have a definitive answer.

    I can say that we have never had supports leave a messy finish with PLA or most others we tried regardless of how flat the surface was with supports under it. Nylon was problematic as was PolyCarb, but everything else worked OK.

    Granted, we try to design around needing supports at all, but sometimes we get lazy or 'designed into a corner' and that is the only way out.
     
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  12. GAmbrosio

    GAmbrosio Active Member

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    I guess generally supports print fine for me as well, but the problem occurs when the bottom surface of the model is not flat against the bed and is suspended by supports. Perhaps, the layer density can help give the first layer a harder surface to press on? I'll try the suspended sphere thing and see if I get identical results as you.


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  13. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    I did it and found my temp was 3 -5 deg to hot. I run 195 for quick and dirty pla for example and 191 for pretty and supports
     
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  14. GAmbrosio

    GAmbrosio Active Member

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    So lower the temp? Not raise it?


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  15. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    That's what I did. Lowered the temp. I currently playing with the bridging details to get a 150mm bridge to turn out. Low heat high fan. Essentially supports are the same as a bridge. Get the bridge right and I think supports will follow
     
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  16. 3D Printer Man

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    I print PlA at 210 and the bed is at 50 C. Try that. Usually with stringing you need to increase the temperature.
     
  17. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Stringings most typical cause is to hot,

    @3D Printing ROBO please be careful not to give backwards advice as it could cause downtime, frustration and possibly expense.
     
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  18. 3D Printer Man

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    Sorry typing too fast. Nice catch.
     
  19. GAmbrosio

    GAmbrosio Active Member

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    Geof, here's a pic of what it looks like right on the layer that the supports were removed from.

    [​IMG]


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  20. GAmbrosio

    GAmbrosio Active Member

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    Dang, shook it...[​IMG]


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