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PEI Print Bed

Discussion in 'Mods and Upgrades' started by MeMine, Jan 24, 2016.

  1. MeMine

    MeMine New Member

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    Hey Everyone, I've had my Robo 3D + for about 2 months now and have been having a great time. I've printed some upgrades that were recommended and installed an E3Dv6. I've read a lot of great advise here that has helped me to avoid a lot of problems and been able to enjoy printing much more. So THANKS for that.

    Now I want to give back. I recently saw a YouTube video about using PEI on the print bed, so I decided to give it a try. I don't have the link but you can find it with a simple search. I had been using the glue stick then the hair spray. I liked the hair spray the best, but now I've been using the PEI for about a week and it's fantastic. I don't have to put anything down and everything comes off so very easy. I have not had to use a scraper or razor blade to get anything off the bed once it cools down. I got the stuff from amazon, listed below. I put down the 3M double sided tape and stuck the PEI to it. Some trimming and fitting is needed but simple to do after watching the video. I've tried it with PLA, ABS, Flex, and PETG without putting anything on the bed before printing and no problems with adhesion. Here is the stuff I got from Amazon:
    PEI (Polyetherimide) Sheet, Opaque Natural, Standard Tolerance, ASTM D5205 PEI0113, 0.03" Thickness, 12" Width, 12" Length $16.43
    TapeCase 468MP 12in X 12in - 6 per pack Adhesive Transfer Tape (1 Pack) $16.14
    YouTube Link:

    Hope you have as good of luck as I have and thanks again for all the advice and tips.
     
    Tom Finzel likes this.
  2. Beeedy

    Beeedy New Member

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    This looks like a serious upgrade! I seriously dislike the residue from gluesticks or coating the linear rods with hairspray. Will have to give this a try!
     
  3. Quest

    Quest Member

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  4. Beeedy

    Beeedy New Member

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    I will have to remember getting those on my next amazon order, thanks for links
     
  5. Schlomo

    Schlomo Member

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    Is there a limit to the Bed Temperature when using this stuff with the adhesive sheet? Do you heat your bed at all when using this sheet?
     
  6. anklagon

    anklagon New Member

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    I did this upgrade a while ago too and never looked back.
    I heat my bed to about 90C for ABS and 60C for PLA (you want about 85C / 55C on the actual PEI surface).
    Things stick to it great, no need to oversquish the first layer or use any glue...occasionally a print may stick too well, but a quick spray of electronics freeze-off gets it unstuck easily.
    Mine lost adhesion after about 3 months of heavy use, just brushed it a bit with a scotch brite pad, wiped it with isopropyl alcohol, and it was like new.
    One of the best upgrades i have done to my printer.
    Only one thing: make sure your hot end is sturdy and does not wobble: I had a problem with the volcano heatblock wobbling a bit (little less than 1mm in 2 directions) and that was enough to make most of my print get unstuck within the first 20 layers.
     
  7. Makerparts

    Makerparts New Member

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    PEI has been awesome. really since I started i havent worried much about adhesion. but i also only really print with PETG due to low warp and thats its foodsafe.
     
  8. Schlomo

    Schlomo Member

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    I just did this upgrade and went from having almost 0 issues with corners lifting to having all of my prints have raised corners... im not impressed, is there something that everyone else did that I need to? my bed is at 90c as someone else suggested. Printing black ABS. Ill take some pictures of successful prints and this most recent failed print when it finishes.
    Does the surface need to be prepped somehow?

    Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
     
  9. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    What brand is your ABS?
     
  10. Schlomo

    Schlomo Member

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    Hatchbox

    Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
     
  11. Schlomo

    Schlomo Member

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    The only thing i did was apply the abs tape, and stick it to the bed after trimming, and remove the top plastic protector. I did not wipe down initially with Alcohol. I'm thinking it could be possible there were some residual oils from the clear plastic film protecting the pei sheet. Any thoughts?

    I've also heard Hatchbox ABS is actually not pure ABS. Could this be the issue? If so, is there a different ABS filament recommended on here for PEI?

    Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
     
  12. Schlomo

    Schlomo Member

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    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Both of these were printed before the pei sheet was added. Heated chamber at 50c, 100c bed temp. Hair spray on bed.

    The failed one isn't done yet


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  13. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    Well ABS is a blend of 3 different chemicals, so it can vary greatly between supplier.

    I personally find Prototype Supply has the least amount of warp of any ABS I've tried. toybuilderlabs.com sells it for a reasonable price and if you buy 2 or more spools you get free shipping. Usually get it in 2 days as well
     
  14. Schlomo

    Schlomo Member

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    Thanks for the suggestion. I'll try a roll. It seems my printer is not quite level even after the auto level. I'm going to try to shim up my bed on the back left and from right corners and try to get a consistent first later height. Right now it's off by probably .1mm from left to right.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  15. anklagon

    anklagon New Member

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    The only time that i had issues printing on PEI was when my e3d was mounted a bit slanted and the nozzle was not perfectly perpendicular to the bed. If i was to guess, i would think the problem is leveling (either the bed or the nozzle).
    Careful though, when you will have everything leveled properly, 100C maybe too high a temperature for PEI and the prints may result really hard to take away (in case use some electronics freeze-on spray).
     
  16. Chuck Erwin

    Chuck Erwin Active Member

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    I just ordered some I am a sucker for new things to try.
    I got a zebra board for my Wanhao 4s and I had to use a chisel and hammer to get the abs print off.


    After thought:
    Maybe I will not try it directly on the robo glass after all. My memory of the zebra board is getting much more clearer.
     
    #16 Chuck Erwin, Feb 1, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2016
  17. jediknight0

    jediknight0 Active Member

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    I've been having a lot of problems recently with ABS sticking. I think it's the marginal increase in humidity during the winter but I'm not really sure. PEI sounds interesting but I'm a little concerned... if this turns out bad, I assume I can't remove it so I'd be looking at a new heated bed from Robo... if they have them in stock.

    Can the PEI be removed if it turns out bad?
     
  18. anklagon

    anklagon New Member

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    It can be removed... i did it twice.
    It takes a while and you will likely have to throw away the piece of PEI once removed since it will bend/snap in the process...Also its is going to be a pain to remove the 3m tape from the glass bed (lot of acetone / goo off wipes) and patience...
    Each time it took me 2/3 hours to remove the PEI and get back to a clean glass bed
     
  19. Schlomo

    Schlomo Member

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    I got it working reasonably well for smaller parts, but this stuff leant really make sense to me. I had to lower my initial layer heist down to really squish my abs onto the bed and also increase my first layer width. With that smaller parts work well, but larger parts will lift at the corners but the portion that is still stuck to the bed is REALLY stuck, so I don't understand how the corners woulDnt also be that hard to remove.

    Wiping down with alcohol really seems to be the best thing so far. Even oils from hand from removing the previous part can lead to bad results. It is nice not needing to spray anything on the bed prior. Especially since it keeps my linear rods clean.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  20. anklagon

    anklagon New Member

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    I think you have some leveling issues, either a slanted hot end or bubbles in the adhesive that keeps the PEI in place. That would explain why smaller prints work well: less chances in differences of height on a smaller length of x or y..
    Once i got it all calibrated and checked with a digital indicator, i actually had to put back my z offset to 0.00 (never had it at 0 before), and with some filaments i even have to increase the distance a little in order to not have the print stick too much.

    Other things that help a lot:
    - Reduce the autolevel area in configuration.h to just the section of the bed covered by the heater. Sampling a smaller area increases the accuracy of the autolevel on a whole, and you are not going to use the unheated portion anyways.
    - Either enclose your printer, or increase the overall ambient temperature in order to print with abs. My printer is in a 100 square feet insulated shed with 3 computers on 24/7 and 2 3d printers and i live in CA, so the shed hardly has an overall temperature lower than 25C, usually 30C.
    - Also, i had far more success with the glossy side of the PEI sheet rather than the matte one. The matte side worked fine with PLA but always gave me some warping with ABS
     

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