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The Monoprice Maker Select Mini Delta.

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by daniel871, Oct 2, 2017.

  1. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I would suspect that the firmware is doing something to kill your extrusion. An error of some sort being raised that stops the extruder, but not the motion...I know you are not seeing an error, but ... that is weird and I don't see it being just a communications error not if it reliably is just nuking the extrusion. Unless something is causing your stepper driver to just shut down for some reason... (which is also weird)
     
  2. daniel871

    daniel871 Well-Known Member

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    Just to eliminate one other thing I've changed on this machine, I removed the power switch I'd installed between the power brick and the line running to the printer, mainly just to make sure there isn't some odd "not enough power to run" fault that has the extruder stepper driver as the first thing to be deprived of power in that kind of situation (doesn't make much sense, but it's the only hardware-related change I've made other than the Titan itself, which shouldn't matter either).

    EDIT: To clarify, the one major design flaw I've hated about this printer is that there is no on/off switch on it. The main workaround people have used is to either plug the printer into a surge protector strip and use that switch to power it on/off or one of the in-line switches you can buy on Amazon that work with laptop power supplies.
     
  3. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    It just doesn't sound like a problem I'd associate with not enough power (the extruder is drawing less than the axis steppers -- almost always). Still, you had to eliminate anything you changed. What firmware do they use and what style electronics?
     
  4. daniel871

    daniel871 Well-Known Member

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    Same firmware used on the Monoprice Maker Select Mini V2. Weirdo custom job that works on the 32-bit processor on it that still recognizes Reprap G/Mcodes.

    It hasn't been cracked open yet, but what people have gathered so far that have tried to dig it open is that it's a custom linux installation with some mixture of GRBL and custom pin definitions for the board they are using.

    EDIT: Okay, the switch isn't the problem. Same thing happened again with the test print.
     
    #44 daniel871, Nov 2, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2017
  5. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    As an aside -- we played with GRBL when trying to sort out the firmware for the DLP (even though we eventually went with Marlin there too). It was an interesting flavor and disappointing that it largely got dropped by the original folks. It had potential.

    So as a base for their firmware it would not be a bad choice. It only hurts in that you are not going to find a lot of other interest in it or places to get it updated.

    Is there a way with their electronics to switch stepper drivers easily? I am not sold on that being the problem, but it is probably the next thing I'd look at. It really sounds more like 'software' (or firmware) than hardware with the symptoms you describe. If their board is like a RAMBO or the new C2/R2 boards then the answer is "no", but worth asking.
     
  6. daniel871

    daniel871 Well-Known Member

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    Nope, the stepper drivers are embedded in the board.

    You can see it on the right hand side of the picture here:

    [​IMG]

    The stepper drivers are underneath that hilarious heatsink.
     
  7. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Well, at least they heatsinked them :)
    As yet another aside -- You could (of course) always replace that board with something else, but that can get pricey if you want to stay with a 32-bit one.

    Well, sort of the firmware silently failing I am out of ideas.

    You have ruled out all of the low-hanging fruit and the symptoms don't match some of the more obvious problems (like a bad or failing stepper). If they were reachable I'd suggest turning up the stepper driver current a bit just to make sure the stepper is not getting warm and dropping steps due to low current or that the driver itself is not simply dropping the current ... sadly that is not an option
     
  8. daniel871

    daniel871 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the current to the stepper drivers is firmware controlled, but right now there is no way to adjust it since the firmware is locked up/undocumented.

    I mean, I would use Reprap Gcodes to change it if I knew for sure what I was doing/that the controller would recognize it, but those values aren't reported when doing M503 so I don't think they're recognized codes (use either M906 or M907 to adjust current).
     
  9. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    If you have access to the firmware source we can pick it apart, but if they only provide compiled/hex files for updates... nope.
    Repetier firmware does that for the stepper drivers (supports controlling the current via firmware) and our Delta with the RAMBO board uses that approach. Different approach to doing it via hardware, but not a bad one.
     
  10. daniel871

    daniel871 Well-Known Member

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    Right now we don't have access to the firmware files to reflash/update the board, they pulled all firmware files offline due to a slew of people bricking their machines by doing the update wrong and cycling power while the LCD was blank, but the update was still running (or failing to remove the update files and doing a power cycle, which caused it to try to update again).

    The procedure was to load the files onto the SD card, load the SD card when the printer was powered down, power it on and then wait until the LED on the side of the printer stopped flashing to indicate that it was working, then removing the SD card and cycling power again to reboot the controller (and not insert the SD card with those files on it again).

    The files themselves were .bin and .flg files.

    EDIT: I never got around to downloading the firmware update files because the changelog at the time didn't include any actual bugfixes and were mainly about updating the appearance of the LCD menu.
     
  11. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    That is compiled firmware not source so ... that rather bites.

    OK, wow, some google-fu on that printer leads to a lot of information (none helpful to you) that is rather... eye-opening.

    Yea, they are playing hide-and-seek with the firmware. If it were me and I had that hardware I'd consider retrofitting some more standard hardware and firmware in, but I do realize that even doing that would be a Pyrrhic victory as it would likely cost more than the machine in time and parts.
     
  12. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    put it back to stock and send it back for a new one :D
     
  13. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Sometimes it is not about winning... it is about NOT LOSING :)
     
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  14. daniel871

    daniel871 Well-Known Member

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    I'll probably do just that if I don't come up with a solution between now and when they open the main website up for selling them. I've got a full year to exchange the thing for any given reason that it stops functioning properly, so at least there is that.

    EDIT: Just for the hell of it I'm running the pre-sliced file that came on the SD card for running with the sample PLA to see if there actually is something screwed up somewhere in the S3D profile/how S3D is generating code for it.
     
    #54 daniel871, Nov 2, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2017
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  15. daniel871

    daniel871 Well-Known Member

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    Well, I'm being sent a replacement main board to wire up/fix the printer, with the latest version of the firmware already loaded/tested/etc.

    I'll post an update once I receive it and have it installed.
     
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  16. daniel871

    daniel871 Well-Known Member

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    Well, replacement main board received yesterday, swapped this morning and ran the test program that came with the printer (which ran fine when I first received the machine on the original board before the problems started).

    Extruder stopped again partway through the program and the machine kept running as if it hadn't.

    Running PID tuning just to make sure there isn't some oddball not-reported temperature readout error, but after that I'll put the stock extruder back on, run another test after resetting extruder steps to stock, and file another RMA.

    Either I got another bad main board or the issue is because the board just can't handle running a Titan, I'll figure that out today.

    EDIT: Put everything back to stock and same issue. Looks like I got a bad replacement main board.
     
    #56 daniel871, Nov 7, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017
  17. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    I wouldnt think it would much matter unless the new stepper needs differnt current from the stock ones they use, super interesting. Its like your extruder is overheating and stalling. Wierdness. Probably not, but can you use the OEM stepper with the titan?
     
  18. daniel871

    daniel871 Well-Known Member

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    The OEM stepper had the drive gear set screw stripped during assembly (to the point that the set screw "hex" was now a "round"), so there's no way to use it with the Titan without taking destructive measures.

    The extruder stepper (regardless of which one is used) stays cold to the touch throughout the feeding of material, extrudes a tiny amount and then skips steps/stalls/locks up (in that order).
     
  19. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Gotta love them chinese assembly plants some days :D Could always carefully drill out the set screw and pull the pulley off if needed ;) (need a real good drill bit to get through the set screw) or easy out it. (the name is a lie)
     
  20. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Easier than cursing it out (but not by much)
     

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