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Why is the X carriage so big?

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by Gregory Karaoghlanian, Aug 30, 2018.

  1. Gregory Karaoghlanian

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    I was wondering why the X carriage is so big. It has so many parts and gearing. For what? Does't that add more weight? Wouldn't I get better prints with a smaller direct drive system like the Prusas and other printers have?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    its possible you may, but you still have the weight on a prusa set up (stepper- gear- bearings- belts- etc etc. You can certainly do a mod but I dont see you improving print quality based off that. The R1 series is completely capable of great prints. Just needs settings tuned, mechanicals set up etc. If you look through the forum you'll see many examples of some really great prints on stock (or near stock) hardware.
     
  3. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Geared extruder. There are a number of differences between geared and direct extruders each is a design choice. The R1/R1+ uses geared (GregsWade) the R2/C2 uses direct, other printers are different as well.

    Direct extruders are more susceptible to problems with backpressure on the extruder.

    The more weight you have on the movable carriage the less acceleration it can tolerate which means overall you may have slightly longer print times to maintain accuracy. Not really an issue in the design of the R1 style nor is it an issue with the R2/C2 (gantry style) although they went with direct extruders on those..
     
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  4. Gregory Karaoghlanian

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  5. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    If you look at the R2/C2 it does bring up an interesting question because while it is direct and has a bit less plastic weight by not having the geared extruder, the bulk of the mass is in the stepper motor which is still there :) A bowden would have moved the mass off of the extruder carriage. Again it is a gantry so the mass moving is far less of an issue.
     
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  6. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    with bowden you have alot of backpressure issues to balance and frankly I dont think the hexagon can handle it. You'd hinder speed with such a low quality hotend. (also retraction distances are very big- 5mm in most and can cause some serious jams). If you look at Ultimaker you can see how well a bowden can work BUT if you look at their stock set ups the machines print VERY slow. After some tuning you can bump up but stock settings for out of the box experience its slow (and 3mm to deal with retractions/backpressure) plus a large bowden feed of waste material :D
     
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  7. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Yea, I agree totally -- our 8 foot bowden feed* on the delta is a PITA to maintain.

    Still, if the issue was carriage mass they would have moved off the motor :)
    The second extruder is designed to be bowden.

    In the end I am convinced that carriage mass is not an issue on the Robos. It would have been one on the R1 series for sure if you went with two geared extruders on the carriage. No doubt. The R2/C2? Nope the design makes it moot. The dual extruder mods I have seen for the R1 series were all bowden conversions for that reason.



    *which is why we have never implemented the Y adapter for the feed to do multi-color... can you imagine the waste pile from an 8 foot purge every color change? Yes, we could put it closer to the effector, but then you have to deal with the backpressure issues. Ugh
     
  8. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    agreed. Stout setup on the carriage design for the R2/C2. If they wanted to lose some mass they could use smaller steppers since I dont see anyone pushing beyond 80mm/s. and forget that noise (8 foot bowden with 1.75 would make me wanna die lol)

    for the waste I'd suggest just sticking a bucket under the nozzle and waiting (forever) for it to clear out lol. Full time job ;)
     
  9. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Yea, we learned a lot (of new swear words) from that delta...
     
  10. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    o_O:mad::confused:

    the 3 faces of deltas
     
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