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Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by k1e1v1i1n, Jan 3, 2015.

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  1. k1e1v1i1n

    k1e1v1i1n Active Member

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    It looks to me like too much material is being put down and causing the print head to drag over it causing it to get all clumpy. it goes away after the first layer but the bottom of whatever i print ends up not looking so smooth. the more surface area on the bottom the worse it gets. Here is a pic of what I am talking about.

    As you can see the worst area is in the center of the pic that square is about 1 inch by 1 inch you can also see that most everywhere else its not as big of a problem.

    What am I doing wrong. :(

    The following are pics of the first 3 layers. by the 3rd layer whatever problem there is has pretty much covered it up.

    hot end : 210
    bed : 60
    any other settings just ask.
     

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  2. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I think this is over extrusion.

    Try testing your extrusion. Run a test extrude and validate that the amount extruded matches what you told it to do both in size and amount of filament.

    Some nozzles are not accurately sized. My best was a 0.6 and my worst was a 0.4. I had some other 0.4 nozzles that were better...

    A quick test would be to simply force the extrusion rate (extrusion %, whatever your software calls it) down a notch and see if a test print has better first layers.
     
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  3. k1e1v1i1n

    k1e1v1i1n Active Member

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    You think over extrusion would work it self out after the first few layers?

    I will give that a try.
     
  4. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Yes, mostly it might (assuming it was not severe) the top/bottom layers can be set a bit differently. All of that depends on the slicer and software you are using.

    If the over extrusion is not too great then the bottom layer could be the one you notice the most.
     
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  5. Tanbam

    Tanbam Member

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    Check your nozzle to,see if it's got a partial clog. I started seeing some ugly lines when I had a bit of a clog. Filament was flowing, but not a smooth stream straight down out of the nozzle end.
     
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  6. k1e1v1i1n

    k1e1v1i1n Active Member

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    Will do as soon as my print finishes.

    I am using matter control 1.2 with cura engine.

    what worked best when trying to clean out a clog? not sure I have anything around the house thin enough to stick in the tip.

    for my next print I will try turning down the extrusion, as far as I know the filament comes out pretty nice I will make a video so you guys can see what you think.

    Thanks a lot by the way.
     
  7. Tanbam

    Tanbam Member

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    I tried to clean my clog in situ using a guitar string, but was not able to get it. I ended up needing to take the nozzle off and hitting it with a butane pen torch to burn out whatever was clogging it - I think it was ABS that never made it through.

    After the thorough burning and more guitar string, the clog was gone.

    If you end up doing this, make sure the hot end is tightened up completely afterwards, both the nozzle and above the heater block. My first attempt had it leaking badly on both sides of the heater block. Make sure it's hot when you tighten it back up. I used the pen torch to heat it away from the printer, and it's sealed better now than it was from the factory...
     
  8. k1e1v1i1n

    k1e1v1i1n Active Member

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    I think I am going to do everything I can to not take it apart. I have only used PLA so far maybe I will put the heat way way up and extrude some material and see how that works or do you think running it hot for a min without extruding would be better?

    Or is that just a bad idea all together?
     
  9. Tanbam

    Tanbam Member

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    I think running it hot could be a bad idea, because it won't get hot enough to really do anything and could make some of the plastic harden even more.

    I think one of the downsides of owning a 3D printer at this stage is that you will be required at some point to disassemble it a bit - that's why it came with a bag of tools! I didn't want to do it either, but once I did, I realized that the hot end is very easy to work with. It's really not as bad as it sounds; you can be up and running again in fifteen minutes.

    Make sure you season your hot end with some oil, it should help prevent clogs going forward.
     
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  10. k1e1v1i1n

    k1e1v1i1n Active Member

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    Yes I am using a oiler. I have been for the past few days. I will try a few tests (extruding in mid air to see what comes out, and printing a big first layer with the extrusion turned down maybe .85?) and make a video and then post it up here in a hour or two.

    I guess i will stay away from running it hot.

    I know I will end up having to take it apart sooner or later I was just hoping to get a few weeks of learning before I made any big changes.

    But if I have to I will.
     
  11. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    cranking down the extrusion by 15% is a good test. Run a model through and watch the first layer.
    If it doesn't help at all then that rules out over extrusion.

    if you are running an oiler with PLA then it is not likely clog related. Not impossible, but not as likely.
     
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  12. k1e1v1i1n

    k1e1v1i1n Active Member

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    I'm sure the video will tell all. I would have posted it already but I didn't want to stop a print to do a few tests.
     
  13. Printed Solid

    Printed Solid Volunteer Admin
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    To me, it looks like you have dirty spots on your bed where the filament isn't sticking.

    If also looks like you might not quite have your nozzle gap set quite right. I've got a guide here that might be helpful: printedsolid.com/firstlayer

    There's no problem with heating it up more for cleaning as long as you do it only briefly, then cool it back down. That's a common method for cleaning out PLA, and with the hexagon, it's not like you're going to overheat and damage the hot end itself Go up to 250-260 briefly. You should get a nice molten blob of PLA that falls out. Then cool it right down.
    Barring that, you can to the guitar string, buy some cleaning filament (I have a tiny bit left, but am then out until the Pacific Labor Strike gets resolved). Pulling off the nozzle does work and you shouldn't be afraid of it. Just do it hot.
     
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  14. k1e1v1i1n

    k1e1v1i1n Active Member

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    I cleaned the bed with alcohol before this print. I usually use gluestick but this happens with or without.

    in my video I will show everything cleaning extruding in air and first few layers.

    maybe even a quick 250 extrude.

    Also I have read that guide and found it very useful.

    Thanks
     
  15. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    That to me says the first layer is too low
     
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  16. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I agree that some of the layers/perimeter you can see well look a bit low.
    Not being an auto-level user I am not sure if that was the real issue or not and that alone might not explain the mess... but if it is easy to adjust I would raise it a tiny amount.
     
  17. k1e1v1i1n

    k1e1v1i1n Active Member

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    It is possible I am setting up too low. I am super new. I am only a week into ownership. I am just working on the video right now and I took a few more pics.

    The first item is the finished piece from the earlier pics. the second item is a failed bottom of a new print. I first tried 100% then 85% then finally 70%.

    At 85% it started to get pretty thin I new 70% would never work but no harm in trying it pretty much just stopped printing at 70%.

    extruding at 210c and 235c did not show any difference to my eyes but I will have the video up soon.

    I guess now I am hoping I am just set up too low so after I post the video I will try raising it up a bit and seeing how that goes.

    I wish there was something a little better to check the gap with other then paper like something that was 100% once you set it.

    Oh well enjoy the pics.

    Thanks again to everyone.

    Video to follow.
     

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  18. k1e1v1i1n

    k1e1v1i1n Active Member

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    Here is the video.

    0:15 its extruding at 210c
    2:00 its extruding at 235c
    6:00 bed leveling starts
    6:45 skirt starts
    7:25 object starts
    7:50 fill starts and looks fine
    8:15 things start going wrong

     
  19. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    With the auto-level (as I understand it) the starting Z offset is probably what you need to tweak, although someone one here has resorted to manually tweaking it as it is starting if memory serves...ugly that, don't go there.

    I would suggest doing a test print and bringing that value up (in small increments--maybe .01, not sure how fine that offset is) and doing a test print.
    Since you can tell from the first layer you don't have to wait for it to finish. The perimeter and some of those fills look too low.

    Temperature alone would probably not be a huge factor unless it was way off. Typically too hot gets saggy and/or will string a lot. This is not really that. edit: the first test extrude looks pretty good. The second less so, you can see it wants to wrap back immediately to the nozzle. That is normally a sign you are too warm.
     
  20. Printed Solid

    Printed Solid Volunteer Admin
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    order a set of shims instead of using the paper.
     
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