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Day 2 as a C2 Owner, My Thoughts

Discussion in 'Show and Tell' started by OutsourcedGuru, Jun 3, 2017.

  1. OutsourcedGuru

    OutsourcedGuru Active Member

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    Guys,

    It's a brilliant idea in concept. Although I'm still excited about the possibilities, out-of-box this still has some things which could have been avoided to make this a more mature product. I have yet to print anything on this and I've just spent $900.

    1) First things first, the power switch on the back is wired so that 1=OFF and 0=ON (reversed).
    2) The foldout documentation suggests that I should download the "mobile Robo app" which can't be found on the Apps Store. Would suggest that you update the documentation to indicate that you should search for "Robo3D, LTD" if you hope to find it.
    3) In the iOS app, the Getting Started goes to a video about the R1 model which is perhaps 30% pertinent in content at best. If a gluestick is required for adhesion and presumably its cost is cheap as compared to a support call, then why not include one in the kit with the tweezers?
    4) At Frye's, the Drone Kit was positioned about six inches from the C2 and suggested by the salesperson so I said "yes". Only after opening the box does it mention that it wants the print bed at 55ºC (not possible on the C2 model). Would strongly suggest updating the Drone Kit to indicate that it's compatible with printers with a heated print bed like the R1.
    5) Here on the website -> Support -> Support Room -> Language = English -> Printer = C2 -> Troubleshooting -> "Print not sticking to bed" -> basically, a 404 error since there are no troubleshooting landing pages.
    6) The foldout documentation didn't suggest running the Z-adjust wizard before attempting to print. I watched the first attempt "air print" perhaps a full inch off the bed's desk.
    7) Not to be too cynical but perhaps the first thing to teach the new user is how to cancel a submitted print job to avoid unnecessary waste. I've made at least ten attempts now and still no joy on this. It's a bit lost on the new user that one must tap on the job in order to see the logistics and to be able to then cancel it. You should consider adding this information to any help videos.
    8) As mentioned by others, the LCD screen appears to be finnicky, requiring more pressure than I would normally press.
    9) Someone on a forum (for a Robo C2 printer) suggested that they taped a piece of paper to the bed to assist with adhesion. When attempting this I found that the automatic bed-check step was confused by the difference in reflectivity of the paper and tried to "air print" again.
    10) When entering the wifi password I found the onscreen keyboard to be super-small. I eventually was able to use something small/pointy to type in the letters. Not sure what to suggest on this.
    11) The onscreen LCD has an Update feature which doesn't appear to work at all. It appears to have two sections (Features/Bugs) with hyphens as placeholders but no content otherwise. (It's as if someone was attempting to marry up a JSON response with a template and yet that conversation never occurred, resulting in a blank report.) Clicking the button yields some terse error message.
    12) There appear to be places within the interface so that I could change the print speed or to adjust the extrusion speed. Selecting this option then gives me a blank field in which to type... something. What am I supposed to type here? And if I did, how would I return the setting back to its default if I don't know what that is? I have to assume that bed adhesion could happen if some settings are changed by the interface/documentation is seriously lacking at the moment.

    If I had purchased this online, waited several days for it to arrive only for it to act this way, I think I'd be a lot more frustrated at Robo. As it is, I waited three months researching my choices and thought that I'd made a good decision with the Robo C2. It would be a shame to have to take this back to Frye's for a refund but I'm hoping that some sort of fix is possible.

    I've compromised back to simply attempting one of the Test files which came pre-installed on the printer. Neither of them are adhering to the bed. I'll go out and purchase a gluestick but I wanted someone there to address some of the issues I've listed and to offer some advice otherwise.
     
  2. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Excellent post and great feedback!

    However, make sure this feedback gets copied to the Support email form or into their system somehow.
    99.9% of everyone here is another user like yourself and Robo employees are seldom here and even more seldom reading this :)

    That said it is a great thing to post for new folks to see so that they will be able to learn from what you experienced. Just make sure this feedback also gets to the Robo3D folks as well -- they really need to hear it.

    Now as for some specific ideas... (see the next post)
     
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  3. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Do not go with glue stick -- you don't need it. The paper/sticker surfacing they give you is more than enough to get adhesion working, but you MUST get the Z offset correct first. Not only run the Z offset wizard, run the Z offset fine-tuning until your first layer looks like this one:

    https://printedsolid.com/blogs/news/37035715-get-your-prints-to-stick-check-your-skirt

    It may take some experimentation.

    The LCD screen is NOT a newer more sensitive TFT but the older (and cheaper) capacitive touch screen. It will take more pressure than you might expect.

    You will find a better user interface by using the OctoPrint server web interface built into the machine. Fine-tuning settings and the like are not only more obvious, but better documented. Not an excuse, they need to make the LCD easier to use.

    Most of the issues with printing you have described are probably due to the Z offset not being correct and not being fine-tuned into where it needs to be. We can help you get that sorted
     
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  4. OutsourcedGuru

    OutsourcedGuru Active Member

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    Thanks, you just save me a trip to Target, perhaps.

    Thanks for the suggested link. I can see from this that it's okay for the extruder tip to be a lot lower. I followed the advice from another video in which the paper shim just barely moved under the Z-adjustment but it sounds like it needs to be a notch or two below that for success.

    I guess I'll have to hack around to find that. My first place to search would be the HTTP port using the name of the printer, I'd guess.
     
  5. OutsourcedGuru

    OutsourcedGuru Active Member

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    Adding to the list of observations, my iPad (using the iOS app) readily detected the printer and worked through the Add Printer Wizard activity without problems.

    Since I want to create a short video to show the "air printing" I thought I'd then add the app to my iPhone... only it can't detect the printer (had to manually put in the same information which I'd discovered from the iPad). Clicking the Get Profile button eventually returns "Error: Unable to auto-detect printer profile information". Printer, iPhone and iPad are on the same wifi. Both iPad and iPhone likely have the same settings.

    When I first manually typed in the hostname, the app instantly crashed. Upon the second attempt it seemed to get past that screen.

    Having just clicked the Save button on that Add Printer screen, the app again crashed. Upon opening the app it's indicating that I don't have any printers and would I like to add one. If I abort that, I note that the last attempt actually saved a profile for the printer. Drilling into that it instantly crashes every time.

    It's necessary to completely delete the app and then re-download it to do anything since it immediately crashes now even if you try to adjust the settings on the printer profile.

    Not sure if this is pertinent...
    iPhone: iOS 10.3.2
    iPad: iOS 9.3.5
     
  6. OutsourcedGuru

    OutsourcedGuru Active Member

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    Alright, I found OctoPrint by going to the hostname.local website. It's offering a v1.3.4 update to OctoPrint. Should I take that or run with this version? (Thanks)
     

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  7. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Yes Octoprint 1.3.4 fixes a bunch of stuff. But back up your SD card just in case. On Windows Win32DiskImager (free) will copy it to an .img file or your naming.
     
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  8. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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  9. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    If SSH is not enabled by default on the Robo µSD image, if you stick the card in a Windows or Mac machine, you should see a directory called /boot that is readable by Windows or Mac. In that directory create a new file (it can be empty and zero bytes), and name it ssh, without any extension and all in lowercase. When you pop it back into your Robo printer SSH Server (Secure Shell) will be enabled so you can do some stuff on your own from an SSH shell.
     
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  10. OutsourcedGuru

    OutsourcedGuru Active Member

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    For what it's worth, I took the update(s) offered, watched the download/reboot progress. The LCD screen on the Robo prompted if I wanted to update, I chose to do so and the LCD indicates "Robo is Updating, Your printer will restart after the update is finished... (Please do not turn off the printer.)" All the while, OctoPrint's screen appears to be oblivious of the Robo's update process, for what it's worth.

    Okay, it's restarted a second time and it looks like the LCD interface has updated.

    The iPhone's iOS app is now able to detect the printer. The Get Profile returns immediately. Drilling into the printer doesn't crash the app. :) Likewise, it feels like the LCD screen is now responding better (note that the driver was updated per that screenshot earlier). :)

    On a side note, I've determined that I'm able to
    Code:
    ssh pi@hostname.local
    into this using the default password for a Raspberry Pi 3.

    Running Z-adjust wizard. "Moving Z Axis to minimum position...", I'm adjusting the Z+ (75 jogs at 0.1mm) => Z-Offset = -12.6 (noting that typical value earlier was more like -4.5 as I recall.)

    And just as I'm about to print, OctoPrint offers another update "Kaa_printevent Plugin: 0.1.1". See attached. The Update Now button doesn't seem to be doing anything, however. Chose Ignore. Settings -> Software Update -> Check for update now. Again, the box doesn't seem to go away.

    ssh -> ls ~/oprint/lib/python2.7/site-packages -l | less => Kaa_Printevent-0.1.0-py2.7.egg-info

    (So I don't think that ever happened.)

    Checking the Files, the original test files are now replaced with others (I wouldn't have expected that). Noting that these files are in "~/.octoprint/uploads". Confirming that the iOS app shows the same set of files. Would caution others than an update can potentially lose uploaded data.

    Brilliant. Just sent the C2_Bed_Level_Spiral_Test to the printer and it's done much better in adhering. I'll try to upload the video of this so that others can see what it's supposed to look like.
     

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  11. OutsourcedGuru

    OutsourcedGuru Active Member

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    :laugh: Way ahead of you. I actually used Apple-PiBaker to snag an out-of-box image of the microSD before I even turned it on. I've got that in case anyone is interested.
     
  12. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    They didn't follow the "rule of least astonishment" on their updates. The earlier ones went through a phase where the Z offset had to be reset after each one :)

    They do seem to be getting better though.
     
  13. OutsourcedGuru

    OutsourcedGuru Active Member

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    Thank you... but it appears to be enabled by default and I went to school on the folder structure already.
     
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  14. OutsourcedGuru

    OutsourcedGuru Active Member

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    The video wouldn't upload for whatever reason, but here's a photo of the result for the noobs out there. Thanks for your help. The original skirts link allowed me to see the proper z-adjustment (which seems deep from my amateur viewpoint but I guess that's necessary in an unheated bed).

    And it's also good to know that there's a webserver interface other than the LCD. And finally, it's good to dismiss the gluestick/hairspray voodoo from those experienced in such things. Kudos!
     

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  15. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I do not miss the hairspray and glue stick :)
     
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  16. OutsourcedGuru

    OutsourcedGuru Active Member

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    image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg
    Managed to print a well-behaved money clip from the included gcode files. Notice that the first layer of the raft was threatening to not adhere so I made a quick z-adjust in real time and used Count Spatula to push back down that end of the raft to smash it back into the bed, (for the win).
     
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  17. Pilsnerboy

    Pilsnerboy New Member

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    Great feedback! :)
     

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