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Dual Extrusion on Robo 3D R1

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by NKakon, Mar 5, 2017.

  1. NKakon

    NKakon New Member

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    Hi,
    I've seen basically everyone on this forum advise against modifying to dual extrusion because it was a giant pain in the neck and ends up being very difficult to work with. I also read that on the newer models there isn't room on the board to plug in a new stepper motor (if anyone can confirm this)

    I've recently come into a position where I can get a dual extruder without my paying for it, and would like to look into it anyways, I'm wondering if there exists any tutorial on how i would go about doing this if I decide to try.
    I'm very interested in using multiple materials for engineering projects, so my use of the dual extruder wouldn't just be for supports or different colors.

    I'd also welcome any thoughts you have on this

    Thanks in advance
     
  2. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    You can do it (I have done it on a C2 and others have done it on the R1).
    You need to consider a couple of things.
    1) Yon probably do not want dual GregsWade extruders. You would be better off converting the printer to Bowden feed and extruders and then rework the X axis plate where the extruder(s) mount to account for this.
    2) It is probably better to simply buy a printer that is built for dual extrusion, but you can get there if you really want to do the effort :) My reasoning behind modifying the C2 was more proof-of-concept than need.

    Refer to other threads here:

    http://community.robo3d.com/index.php?threads/dual-extruder-and-before-after-cooling-installed.8673/
    http://community.robo3d.com/index.php?threads/dual-bowden-cold-section-drive.4684/
     
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  3. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Dual extrusion is hard to do, let alone on a machine not intended for it but yes doable.

    I agree with @mark tomlinson, Bowden is the way to go, just don't expect flex to work unless you use something like the e3d Titan extruders for Bowden
     
  4. daniel871

    daniel871 Well-Known Member

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    This aspect of it really cannot be overstated for a printer that wasn't designed with dual-extruding already in mind.

    @mark tomlinson is getting away with it on the C2 because the carriage/surrounding structures were designed with eventually adding dual extruders in mind (or, if you're cynical, as a cheap way to streamline parts for the C2 & R2).

    The R1, meanwhile, was not. As noted in your own post here:

    As a prior owner of an R1+, I can tell you that the stock board does not support the addition of the stepper motor drivers you'd need to set up dual extrusion. You'd either need to do a wholesale replacement of the RAMPS board or get a Stepper Extender and read up on how to define the pins in the firmware to use it correctly.

    It will not be an easy task for a newbie to undertake, and most of the people that consider themselves "veterans" in 3d printer hobby circles will tell you it is only worth the effort if you're doing it to learn the mechanics/electronics/programming side of things.
     
  5. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I would only add that even printers which are designed for dual extrusion do not make it any easier to actually use dual extrusion :)
    There are a lot of potential downfalls when the extruders are not fully independent. Modeling for dual extrusion is really required and then slicing for it becomes more complex... etc. @Geof can talk more about some of the issues on printers that are already designed for it.
     
  6. daniel871

    daniel871 Well-Known Member

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    There's a fairly coherent, if bare-bones, write up here: https://cdn-learn.adafruit.com/downloads/pdf/dual-extrusion-3d-printing.pdf

    That's for the old "two separate hotends" setup though, the game changes for single-hotend setups like the prometheus or prusa multiplex systems.
     
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  7. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Ah dont forget about the IDEX on the sigma :D. (In my opinion one of the only machines thats worth a darn for dual extrusion with the exception of the new UM3). Dual extrusion is hard...modeling dual extrusion is hard...aligning the print heads and accounting for disimilar material shrinkage and warp is....just ....its impossible. lol. The tech isn't there for extreme dissimilar materials BUT its good experience to have. My Sigma runs soluable support material 75% of the time for models that were made by artists, not 3d makers. The other 25% is a flex with a very hard material (XT, PETG, ABS whatever).

    All for the idea of someone doing dual extrusion on the Robo but I think @daniel871 nailed it. The promethius system (I have one coming for my robo or hopefully a different one if I can find one at the right price in time) to do dual extrusion...even then...the 2nd material will likely always be a soluable support lol.

    Keep in mind dual color can be done and is very neat....but ....but....I can paint better than my dual extruders can blend :D
     
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  8. Mike Toole

    Mike Toole Member

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    Can a dual extrusion set up be used simultaneously to speed up printing? or is it a one extruder at a time type of printing?
     
  9. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Current firmware(s) is incapable of driving two extruders at the same time, as a result no slicer implements any functionality for such a scenario.
     
  10. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Indeed, bear in mind that the Arduino/RAMPS is single-threaded :)
     
  11. Mike Toole

    Mike Toole Member

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    thank you!
     
  12. daniel871

    daniel871 Well-Known Member

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    Seems like it would be a tremendous headache with very little reward.

    Maybe something like that multi-headed printer that prints multiple objects at a time, sacrificing build space to keep the heads from colliding. Thats about it, though.
     
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  13. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I concur, but hey! Whatever mods someone wants to do they should go for it :)
    Adding a second extruder to a C2 wasn't like a super-duper idea either ;)
     
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  14. Mike Toole

    Mike Toole Member

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    We were comparing printers at work and one had the option of adding a second extruder. We do not have nor foresee using multiple materials or colors on the parts we print. So we were just wondering if the second print head would speed the print job up. Then that option might have value to us. But if not, we would not take advantage of it.
    I appreciate the great feedback. And fast too!! :)
     
  15. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    It does speed it up on my sigma if i use say a .8 nozzle on the left for infill and a .4 for detail/pretty on the main, thats a last ditch effort if i have to do it. I perfer using dual extruders for multimaterial. The only cool part of dual color is the first few prints. Time is to much when doing a 2nd color. Lots of wasted time moving instead of just printing. That said...if you want it...do it :D its quite challanging which is half the fun.
     
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