1. Got a question or need help troubleshooting? Post to the troubleshooting forum or Search the forums!

Solved E3D V6 0.25mm nozzle clogging mid print

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by theman00011, Jul 13, 2018.

  1. theman00011

    theman00011 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2015
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    2
    Printer: R1+
    Filament type: Black PLA
    Extruding Temp: 200-215
    Bed Temp: 50
    Bed makeup: Glass+Light glue stick for small prints
    Print speed: 10-25mm/s, the one on the right in the picture is 10mm/s, the one on the left I believe was 20mm/s
    Layer height: 0.2mm
    Retraction: 1mm @ 15mm/s


    I just recently got done installing the E3D V6 to replace the hexagon, and everything seems to be working well with a 0.4mm nozzle, but with the 0.25mm nozzle, it seems to get clogged mid print. Up until then, it looks pretty good but then it clogs and prints erratically or jams completely. Then, I have to stop the print and take out the filament (No blobs on the end, just a long string) and cut it and put it in again. The heatsink isn't warm at all and the fan is always running. The problem persists across S3D as well as Cura. 0.25mm.jpg

    I'm trying again with a seasoner on the filament right now to see if it helps at all.
    Edit: It did not appear to. It didn't completely jam but it still stayed just as messed up as the rest.
     
    #1 theman00011, Jul 13, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
  2. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Messages:
    5,905
    Likes Received:
    3,593
    PLA is bad about micro-clogs and PLA covers a very wide variety of chemical compositions. Seasoning may help as well as either increasing the temperatures (not really recommended) or slowing down the printing (recommended). Try halving the print speed as the small diameter nozzle would require more time to lay down the filament.
     
  3. theman00011

    theman00011 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2015
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    2
    To what speed would you recommend? Because that picture, the right side was done at 10mm/s, and I print normally 0.4mm nozzles at 40mm/s. I've also tried temperatures between 200-215 with little change.
     
  4. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Messages:
    5,905
    Likes Received:
    3,593
    I see now you already lowered the speed. Did you calibrate the extruder to see if at 0.25 mm you are actually extruding what you ask for, so 100 mm of requested extrude is actually 100 mm of filament? It should be correct because you are calibrating what is going into the extruder. We need to make sure as few things as possible are mechanically out of adjustment. Also with a .25 nozzle it will be hard to maintain a .2 layer, layer height should be between 25 - 75 % of nozzle diameter (Approximately .06 to .18 layer heights)

     
  5. theman00011

    theman00011 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2015
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    2
    I had did a E step calibration right after installing the V6 on the 0.4mm nozzle, and I figured it would still be accurate but I did it again anyways with the 0.25mm nozzle and it was underextruding by 20mm so I changed it in firmware and ran it again. I also changed the layer height to 0.15mm. Unfortunately the results were largely similar to the others. I currently have retraction turned off, the nozzle was completely clean at the beginning (I checked the hole with a camera and it appeared to be perfectly round with no blockages, though it is hard to achieve getting the nozzle clean enough to see through the hole), the speed at 15mm/s, and the temperature at 220c which is the highest temperature recommended by the manufacturer for this PLA. It did go slightly further than normal but that could just be chance. 0.25mm 2.jpg


    Also, I put back on the 0.4mm nozzle and it printed the same STL fine (A bit worse looking than normal since I have been messing with settings) so it's something unique to the 0.25mm nozzle.
     
    #5 theman00011, Jul 15, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
  6. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Messages:
    5,905
    Likes Received:
    3,593
    Sorry @theman00011 I am kind of out of ideas, I have never used a nozzle smaller than 0.40 and in fact my current nozzle, for at least the past 6 months has been 0.60 mm.
     
    Geof likes this.
  7. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    23,912
    Likes Received:
    7,338
    If your print speed is at least 1/2 of what you used with the 0.4mm nozzle and you have seasoned this new smaller one, I am also out of ideas. I would be trying a new nozzle.
     
    Geof likes this.
  8. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Messages:
    6,757
    Likes Received:
    2,339
    Ditto. The usual culprit with smaller nozzles is speed and temp. Suppose retraction could cause an issue if your doing something crazy
     
  9. theman00011

    theman00011 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2015
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    2
    Hmm, alright. I am ordering some better quality PLA in case it is a problem with the filament itself. I also asked the Printedsolid guys if they could take a look here since they sell the smaller nozzles and might have a better idea of how to use them with good results. Failing both of those I'll probably try another nozzle.
     
  10. theman00011

    theman00011 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2015
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    2
    So I had a bit of better quality older PLA laying around so I decided to give it a try, and with that PLA at 20mm/s and 205C, it completed without jamming. I also used the trick along with the seasoner to put the filament through a Dremel polishing wheel to clean the filament before it enters the extruder. Keeping the speed at 20mm/s I don't have much ringing like I have at 40mm/s on the 0.4mm nozzle so holes look a bit nicer as well. It could probably look better if I put back on retraction and the parts fan so I'll do that and post a picture here if that print finishes as well.

    Edit: Here it is at 0.15mm layer heights, 20mm/s, 205C and 1mm retraction. Any recommendations to improve the quality are welcome

    0.25mm 3.jpg
     
    #10 theman00011, Jul 16, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
    mark tomlinson likes this.
  11. Printed Solid

    Printed Solid Volunteer Admin
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,605
    Likes Received:
    1,003
    Hey, A bit late to the party. Sorry.

    To me, your original issues look retraction related. With tiny nozzles like that, you have so much back pressure that you can probably get away with little to no retraction. That might help.

    Also, looking at your part... why are you using a 0.25mm nozzle at all? There don't appear to be any features requiring the finer detail. We will use a 0.25mm nozzle on exceedingly rare occasions when there is a part with really high XY plane resolution or a feature that is just crazy close to a wall, but beyond that it doesn't really help you out much. Counterintuitively, you can typically get lower layer heights with a 0.4 than you can with a 0.25 anyways.
     
    theman00011 and WheresWaldo like this.
  12. theman00011

    theman00011 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2015
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    2
    No worries. I had mentioned in a previous post that I had retraction turned off so I knew retraction wasn't causing the filament to jam. The part I posted was just a quick test print, it doesn't need the 0.25mm nozzle, I was just using it as a test print. I'm actually using the 0.25mm nozzle to print miniatures and it's been working out pretty well with this better quality filament I had laying around. A 4 hour miniature print actually just finished as I was writing this so here's a picture. (There was a lot of supports so it took about double the time)

    Miniature 1.jpg

    I've found that using a 0.25 nozzle isn't necessary for layer heights but it seems to be much better with finer details on miniatures like belt buckles and tiny objects like staffs. It isn't perfect yet but it's getting closer. I like having a 0.25 nozzle since I can still print larger objects in a reasonable time at 0.2mm layers and finer objects like minis at a lower layer height.
     
  13. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    23,912
    Likes Received:
    7,338
    Just be aware that printing a 0.2 layer height with a 0.25 nozzle is stretching things a bit :)
    Not that it is unworkable, but it is the outer edge of what you would consider the sweet zone.

    Ultimately whatever settings work for you are that sweet zone.

    This is why we have different printers for different things ;)
    Because we are too lazy to change nozzles and reconfigure often.
     
    theman00011 likes this.
  14. theman00011

    theman00011 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2015
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    2
    Yeah, I wouldn't go any higher than 0.2mm on the 0.25mm nozzle but 0.2mm isn't too bad.

    I wish I didn't have to change nozzles so often but my only other printer is a Solidoodle Press (oof) that isn't exactly in working condition right now.

    The better quality filament seems to be doing well, It's been pumping out miniatures all day, unfortunately I ran out of that filament already and the Hatchbox from Amazon isn't here yet.

    I did have another quick question that's somewhat unrelated though. My glass bed is starting to get really bad delaminating in the middle and prints in the middle keep pulling off more glass so I was wondering what options I have for replacing the glass or things like that.
     
  15. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    23,912
    Likes Received:
    7,338
    Your options for replacing the glass are hard ones. Get a new piece custom cut and move over the heater pad and magnets or ...
    Just get a thin sheet of plate glass and use binder clips to cover the top of your old one :)

    Borosilicate glass is not a requirement at these temperatures.
     
  16. theman00011

    theman00011 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2015
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    2
    What about a different material for the bed instead of glass? I haven't really looked into it but maybe one of those magnetic build platforms you can remove. That would also have the advantage of being able to remove your print bed. Are there any reasons to not go that route?
     
  17. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    23,912
    Likes Received:
    7,338
    You can remove the glass plate on an R1/R1+ or am I missing something? Maybe you can't walk away with it :) but it is held on by magnets.

    No reason not to go that route, there are a number of potential bed plate materials and pretty much any will work fine.
     
  18. theman00011

    theman00011 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2015
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    2
    Removable more than 12 inches then :D

    Thanks for all the help
     
    mark tomlinson likes this.
  19. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Messages:
    6,757
    Likes Received:
    2,339
    Flex plate, piece of float glass clipped down, buildtak flex system etc etc are the easiest ways of removable.
     

Share This Page