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Filament feed issue - clicking

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Frank van Gilluwe, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. Frank van Gilluwe

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    I'm having intermittent feed problems, where it runs fine for a while, and then starts to fail to feed the filament. I've confirmed there is no tension on the reel and even if I push a bit on the filament line, it doesn't help. The line is not broken either, as I can reverse it out. When I do remove it, there are no unusual grind marks on the filament - just the normal indents, so I don't think it's being stopped after the feed wheels.

    When this occurs, the layers are either missing or rather sputtered, as if it was 20-30% fill, even though I'm using 100% fill. I also using PLA. When this occurs I get a "clicking" sound about once a second from the area of the filament feeder. I can also see that the spindle from the filament stepper moves a touch but doesn't actually turn (it has a notch that is easy to view). I don't think it's a case of the pully that is mounted on the stepper spindle being loose as it seems firmly attached.

    Now if I stop the print, and start over (or even with a different object), it starts out fine, but after 7 layers or so (not consistent) it starts to fail.

    It's sort of like the stepper runs out of power after a while. Room is not hot (70F). In one case it took 5 hours (of a 14 hour print) to start to occur, and another only 10 minutes (of a 45 minute print). Any ideas what might be going wrong?

    The attached image is not great - but the left print has the top half layers sort of "porous" while the right one came out almost ok (the top most layer or two are not perfect). These two are a slightly different designs. I made one other print between them that started to fail at the 2nd or 3rd layer and I stopped it (not shown).
     

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  2. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    This is an issue that many printers with that style of extruder face. It is either the filament clogging in the hotend (causing too much back pressure) or the extruder stepper not getting enough current to drive it. Clogging you can check on, the latter ... not so much on the R2 or C2 (since the stepper drivers are integrated onto the main board).

    If you are using PLA, try seasoning the hotend, that will help small clogs.
     
  3. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    is the cold end getting hot? If so your suffering from heatcreep and need to look into the robo fans they came up for the hexagon
    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2622310

    I know it says C2 but it does fit the R2. I am test driving it on both the C2 and R2 and the cold end cooling is very much better.
     
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  4. Frank van Gilluwe

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    Thank's Mark. My plan of attack it to first try another material - ABS to see what that does (with a purge).

    I don't think it's clogging, but how do I check/test for that?

    I have both a C2 and R2. I'm thinking both use the same stepper and main board (and the C2 works fine). I could swap them if they are really the same. Looks like four easy to access screws for the top of the extruder assembly and a couple of connectors and it would be easy to swap. The main board looks a bit more tricky and time consuming so I hope that's not the issue.

    Geof - That's on my project list! First big project is to print a holder to handle my Robo spools that have a small hole and don't fit the R2. Every Robo spool I've bought in the last couple of months has the small center hole :(
     
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  5. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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  6. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    C2 is 19V, R2 is 24V according to their documents. I've never heard of 19V so dont know if its a 24 v heater with 19V power supplied or if its a 12 V heater being over powered? (I'd assume the first). May not want to do that :D
     
  7. Frank van Gilluwe

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    Actually I've been running my C2 on 24v for months as it heats up faster. The boards are designed for 24v (I checked), and it works fine. I'm about 99% sure the extruders are also the same (makes sense) and I've had no issues running the C2 on 24v. It just takes longer to heat up with 19v. I expect the 19v power supply is cheaper than a 24v one, as it is made in huge volumes for laptops.

    The adapter I'm attempting to print (that only fits the R2): https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2451417
     
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  8. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I assumed as much, but when I brought this up with @Jerry RoBo 3D he indicated that the heater cores were not rated for 24v....
    Not 100% sure I buy that :) Why would you keep different stock, but they do have them classified differently in their store so...
    When I added the second hexagon to the C2 I made sure it used a 24v heater core (the default would be 12v which would not be good either). Seems to just heat slower.
     
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  9. Frank van Gilluwe

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    Good news (so far). Printed a small knob with black PETG and no issues! Only a 45 minute print, but was always failing with previous PLA (Transparent). So it looks like either a clog or feed rate off a bit with that material. Neither is Robo material, since I have no way to feed it yet (with the small holes).

    Did another 2nd small test print, and had one of the z-axis knobs off. Amazingly it printed just fine. Goes to show the manual z-axis is not all tha critical. (I'm making some knobs that fit over the z-axis knobs to be easier to turn).

    I'll print some more knobs and then the reel adapter so I can use material from all the Robo reels I have!
     
  10. Frank van Gilluwe

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    Still having "clicking" issues where the filament is not feeding. It usually works fine for hours and then starts to go bad. Pause and resume does not help. Occurs with both PLA and PETG. Tried higher temps, tried using a filament cleaner, tried pushing the filament by hand hard into the top of the head. It does appear the extruder is getting clogged. The feed wheels look clean, and I can see the stepper shaft trying to turn. I've done purges too (which work fine).

    My C2 (with PLA) prints great on the same tasks that the R2 chokes. I also notice the R2 extruder drips when stopped far more than the C2. Once the starting line finishes I have to be right on top of it to clean off the drips to avoid screwing up the first layer.

    Presuming the extruder is not letting the material flow properly, should I buy a new extruder? This is an older unit - perhaps the extruder design changed? Any other ideas to look at?
     
  11. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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  12. Frank van Gilluwe

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    I'll give it a try - sounds like it might be the trick I've been looking for!
     
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  13. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Im still convinced its dark magic but man id be lost if i didnt
     
  14. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I printed for over a year before I had to swap nozzles and all of the sudden the clog monster had infected my machine. I went nuts trying to deal with it before I discovered this trick (if you want to call it that). No problems since. Now I just season every nozzle and run an oiler (for constant reseasoning) on the ones where it is easy (the ones with the long bowden feeds I don't use an oiler on)
     
  15. supercazzola

    supercazzola Active Member

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    Did you try tightening the tensioner?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
     
  16. Frank van Gilluwe

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    Mark- that was the trick! Thanks. After adding a few drops of canola oil to some filament (using the cotton ball in the printed feeder from the link), the prints come out great. No more jamming or clicks!
     
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  17. David Olsen

    David Olsen New Member

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    This was good Infomation!
    Thank you
     
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  18. Tony223

    Tony223 New Member

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    question?
    I have a Robo R2 it has stopped feeding the filament. I had a problem where it said "Filament has run out" or something to this effect. I put new Filament in as I have several times before with no issues. My next two prints came out bad, I had Filament which just coiled and looked like hair. I then ran a good large print with nice results. Now it is not feeding the filament at all. I am still trying to work out a problem with the touch screen (not resolved) and now I have this problem. Any suggestions would be helpful.
     
  19. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    The filament runout error is due to the filament runout sensor on the back of the machine.
    It uses an IR sensor to detect filament before it gets to the hotend and if it does not see filament it raises that error to stop the print before the last of it gets to the extruder. SO you can replace it and resume.

    You can get this error when the sensor is failing ...

    The other symptoms sound like a clogged hotend (either the heatbreak or the nozzle). You can remove the nozzle and see... That requires a bit of caution because you must heat the hotend up to loosen the nozzle and then you can drop temperature and remove it cold. Do the reverse when you put it back. Tighten it cold, then heat it up and snug it again (do not over tighten it).
     
  20. Tony223

    Tony223 New Member

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    Yup! I had a clogged hotbend. I had to take it out and pull the filament out. thank you for your help! You are awesome.
    I am hoping the other was just operator error somehow
     
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