1. Got a question or need help troubleshooting? Post to the troubleshooting forum or Search the forums!

Unanswered First layers too thick

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by duke, Mar 7, 2017.

  1. duke

    duke New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2016
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi everyone,
    I'm having a minor problem with my prints. The first few layers almost always come out too thick - you can see it in the attached photo (the part is supposed to be flat and not have the slight ridge on the left side). It's almost as if the extruder is squishing the first few layers into the bed, but if I raise the Z offset any further, the first layer no longer sticks to the bed and it starts printing in the air.
    My printer is an R1+. I'm printing PLA with extruder at 212 deg and bed at 40 deg, using Simplify3D. I tried messing with the First Layer Settings (height/width/speed), G-Code Z-offset, and the offset in the starting script's M565 command with no luck. Any ideas about what else I can try to fix the starting layers?
     

    Attached Files:

    • img.jpg
      img.jpg
      File size:
      29.1 KB
      Views:
      18
    #1 duke, Mar 7, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2017
  2. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Messages:
    6,757
    Likes Received:
    2,339
    your print looks very hot. As far as the first layer please post your start up script from S3D. I imagine the changes you are making from to close to the bed to prints not sticking is much to large of a jump. are you using any adhesive on the bed? (Hairspray, gluestick, PEI, Buildtak etc etc)
     
  3. duke

    duke New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2016
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for your reply. Here's my S3D startup script:
    G28 X0 Y0 Z0
    G1 Z5 F5000
    M565 Z-1.1
    G29

    I was mostly using the Global G-Code Offset (Z-Axis) when experimenting with extruder offset from bed (AFAIK it has the same effect as modifying the z-offset in the M565 instruction). I didn't make large jumps, but rather changing the offset had no significant effect on the first layers being too thick: below ~-0.3 the extruder couldn't extrude the first layer, above ~0.2 first layer was not sticking, and anywhere in between - the first layer printed fine but layers 1-3 were too thick like in the picture above.

    I wasn't using any adhesive on the bed. (I always use gluestick when printing a big part to avoid warping at the sides and popping of the bed, but I found that with small parts, the part will stick to the bed just fine on its own and it will have a nice shiny look on the bottom. With gluestick, the bottom comes out a lot more matte.) So could that be why my first layers are droopy?

    I also noticed yesterday that the extruder is almost 0.5 mm closer to the bed at the center of the X-axis than on the sides. Is that bad?
     
  4. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    23,915
    Likes Received:
    7,338
    That is ... not good :) Not horribly unusual though (glass is not always flat).

    and the Global Z offset is not the same as the M565 offset for the autoleveling although, they are similar.
    You would be better served on a non-flat glass by switching to a later version of Marlin (see the projects sub-forum) and using MESH or BiLinear bed leveling that is available there. Those can more accurately account for an unlevel bed.
     
    duke likes this.
  5. duke

    duke New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2016
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm only seeing 5 projects listed there and nothing about updating Marlin. Is it on this site?

    What's the difference between setting global z-offsets and the M565 instruction offset? I'm still a bit new at this :)
     
  6. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Messages:
    5,905
    Likes Received:
    3,593
    It's in the Mods sub-forum not in Projects.
     
  7. duke

    duke New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2016
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks, I found it. I should use the lastest version (RCBF_MESH_PLUS_03-01) right?

    It looks like a lot more work than I have time for right now so I'll probably try it over the weekend. Meanwhile, if there's anything else I can try to deal with the droopy first layers, please let me know.
     
  8. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Messages:
    5,905
    Likes Received:
    3,593
    RC8 is more stable, but RCBugFix has all the latest stuff.
     
    duke likes this.
  9. duke

    duke New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2016
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    You guys are not gonna like this - I'm now using my uneven bed as an excuse for not adjusting the Z-offset when printing small parts. In the center - great adhesion without gluestick. On the side - gluestick needed but no droopy start layers. :D

    On a more serious note, will I void my warranty by messing with the firmware and is there a chance I can brick my printer if the firmware doesn't compile correctly? I've never worked with Arduinos or compiled firmware before.

    Also, I still didn't get a reply on what the difference is between the M565 z-offset in the startup script and the global z-offset. Could someone please clarify this for me?
     
  10. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    23,915
    Likes Received:
    7,338
    No, unless the board dies you can always reload it.

    This is somewhat slicer dependent, but generally here is a simplistic explanation:

    M565 affects the auto-leveling algorithm, what the offset is as applied to that calculation or how it calculates the flat plane across the sample points. The numbers from the flat plane then become the actually applied offset so it will not be the same everywhere. The other (global Z offset) is just a general offset the slicer applies everywhere (globally). Again that second definition is slicer dependent. No clue how others do it (I use simplify) but you can check the documentation for the one you are using and see what they say.

    M565 was deprecated in later releases of Marlin due to confusion :) even among the developers. Frankly the entire original ABL logic is poorly done (but better than none at all). The newer leveling code that will be in v1.10 (BiLinear and MESH) is better cooked code.
     
    #10 mark tomlinson, Mar 13, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017
    Geof, duke, Rigmarol and 1 other person like this.

Share This Page