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hardened nozzle recomendations

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by sawce_bause, Sep 20, 2018.

  1. sawce_bause

    sawce_bause New Member

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    im looking at starting to print things using carbon fiber pla and other more abrasive printing plastics and need recommendations for a source or hardened steel nozzles.

    i've thought about going the ruby route but from things ive read the steep price tag on them dont seem to make them worth it

    is there a certain size/ thread i should be looking for regarding comparability with the r2?
    are there certain brands i should avoid or stick with ?

    ohh and an amazon prime link is a definite plus just because, well... who doesn't love same day delivery when its available
     
  2. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    R2 uses a Hexagon hot end, any nozzle designed for it or the E3Dv6 hotends will work. I have used the Micro Swiss A2 hardened nozzle for some time now and it appears to be very well made. It also has a thin plating on it that helps keep it clean.
     
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  3. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    I've been using E3D Hardened nozzles- no issues. I just started trying out the microswiss line on a machine I've got and also really like it and will likely try it soon on one of the R2s (@WheresWaldo ty for the link :D )
     
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  4. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Second the notion of hardened steel. Went through a handful of brass nozzles every year until swapping to those and have yet to use even 1 since.
     
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  5. sawce_bause

    sawce_bause New Member

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    ended up going with the e3dv6 as the micro swiss was out of stock. any tips on using a hardened steel nozzle?
    i noticed that i had to bump up my nozzle temp a by about 3 degrees to prevent the filament from curling during extrusion.
    but im also getting a lot of stringing, especially when printing with the cf infused pla
     
  6. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Well, usually the solution to filament curling back to the nozzle is to lower the temp, not raise it :)
    Stringing is also usually too much heat.

    I use E3D with hardened steel and made almost no real changes in any of the print temperatures. It takes a small fraction longer to stabilize at a given temperature, but not much.
     
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  7. Jerome Helbert

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    I've been giving this nozzle a spin for the last few months and generally I have been pretty impressed:
    https://midwesttungsten.com/tungsten-3d-printer-m6-extruder-nozzle-0-4mm-diameter/

    It's a tungsten metal, not tungsten carbide - so not crazy hard - but it's still on par if not higher than hardened steel. It also has the advantage of a significantly higher thermal conductivity than hardened steel, so nozzle temps are more consistent/accurate. I liken it to the thermal performance of brass but with the durability of hardened steel. I've run everything from PLA to Carbon Fiber PC and haven't had any issues.

    The only downside that makes me consider switching back is that it has a tendency to loose and start leaking filament when between heating and cooling cycles. Nothing catastrophic, but just enough to leave excessive string and charred filament all of the print. My guess is that the rate of thermal expansion between the aluminum block and the tungsten nozzle are so different that as it heats up and cools down they just work themselves free. For the time being I just leave myself a post it note on the print to remember to snug up the nozzle before every print and it's fine once its at temp. Long term I have started looking if I can find a low/moderate strength threadlocker that works at print temperatures.

    Additionally, the nozzle is super easy to clean and looks as good as the day I bought it.
     
  8. Jerome Helbert

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    Ironically I was taking a closer look at this the day after I posted that and I realized I am just a dunce, The tungsten nozzle like like .5mm shorter than the brass ones I had been using and I just had the heat block too low. The nozzle was bottoming out on it instead of against the heatbreak threads inside of it.

    I shifted the heat block up a turn and I don't seem to be having issues with loosening anymore.
     
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  9. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    That is actually a "light bulb" moment for folks using FDM printing :)

    The seal is inside the heatblock ...
     
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  10. Jerome Helbert

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    The derp is because I have already had this light bulb moment and have been through this before, I just cant believe it took me so long to even bother to check it.
     
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  11. Jerome Helbert

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    With that sorted out, I really have nothing I don't like about this tungsten nozzle and until I need a different nozzle diameter (they only sell .4mm unfortunately) it's probably going to be the only nozzle I use.

    For anyone super interested in the composition and properties of the metal used, I got this response from the manufacturer:
     
  12. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    If hardened is all you really need then standard hardened steel nozzles are available in pretty much any size/shape (even for volcano hotends) and then are relatively inexpensive. I can attest to their resistance to wear as well :) Just an FYI

    They are not as cheap as brass, but they are not rudely priced
     
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  13. Jerome Helbert

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    Hardened Steel is a poorer conductor of heat than brass, ie your nozzle will run cooler than the heat block and will be more inconsistent. Tungsten (pure) is actually a better conductor of heat than brass, and the alloy used in the nozzle I referenced shouldn't be far off from that.

    For $40, its not too bad to get the durability OF HS without the associated side effects that it brings along.
     
  14. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    for someone like me with multiple machines I've always stuck with hardened. Typically I have a 5 degree increase in temp and nothing else as far as settings go over a standard brass nozzle. interesting to hear someone using Tungsten, but unsure at almost 2x the cost I could justify it other than to play around with. the standard hardened steels are multiple years in of use and no wear that is causing issues.
     
  15. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    <snort> with a 40w heater core I changed nothing and had zero heat issues on hardened steel -- even on the volcano nozzle which are twice the amount of metal on a normal one :)

    Temperature hits as quick as ever and maintains as well as ever (I have done this on 5 printers, not all were Robo)

    YMMV

    I can imagine the stock 30w or the E3D 25w would perhaps have a minor issues. 40w ceramic cores for the win

    Maybe if you have one struggling you should consider the <$4 investment in a 40w heater core :)
     
    #15 mark tomlinson, Oct 26, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
  16. Jerome Helbert

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    1. I wasn't trying to argue with you, or say anything you did was wrong. I was explaining my reasoning for trying out this nozzle
    2. I've also not had any direct issues with HS nozzles, I have a few of them as well. I just like the idea of the Tungsten Nozzle.
    3. When people are spending $100 on a ruby nozzle, I don't see $40 as all that big of an expense.
    4. The decision wasn't a "I need to buy this to solve a problem", it was a "Hey this looks interesting, I am going to give it a try"
    I'm not stating that everyone using a HS nozzle is a chump and that everybody needs to go out and buy a tungsten. I'm just saying that I gave this a try and it worked out great, and if anyone else is interested then I wont try to convince them not to.
     
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  17. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Not pushing back on any of those points, all good :)


    Just saying that if you use the higher wattage core this effect is buried in the mud.
     
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