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Answered how much excess power is there in that power supply?

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Ben R, Feb 10, 2015.

  1. Ben R

    Ben R Active Member

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    I haven't looked under it (its always running) Robo is 360 watts right? 12v 30 amps? heaters are 40w, fans.. a couple more. no idea what the ramps needs beyond the connected hardware. Stepper about 15 watts a piece but is that under load or free spinning? And if so, the current draw of a loaded motor?
    Arduino board, no idea.. it says "mega".. so.. ? lights and lcd controller... its adding up.

    Normal economy says go with just a touch more than you need. But with these things being prone to modification, did they give us considerably more than we need?

    No grand plans, but I've added a few bits of load. Don't know how far I can go. I hear the fan kick on, or hit max every minute or so... but that may not indicate anything. when do you throw on an old computer atx power supply?
    Like to keep it portable.
     
  2. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    HBP: 130W
    Heater: 40W (Possibly 25w, need to measure the resistance)
    Steppers: ~5W each, Total of 25W assuming all are running
    Fans: ~3W
    LED Strip: ~5w (assuming 20 LED's pulling 20mA per)

    Those are the big power hogs. You might pull a few mW from the thermistors and endstop logic and maybe a little more from the arduino, but nothing significant.

    I'd say 16A or ~190W is used, leaving 110W available.
     
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  3. Ben R

    Ben R Active Member

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    Ah... The hbp... Thats a biggie i forgot... Thanks.
     
  4. Datum

    Datum New Member

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    I was looking into upgrading the heater to a 280w silicone model but I'm thinking the stock PS on the Robo won't be able to handle the initial heater start up. If my calculations are correct it will draw 23 Amps at max which will probably blow the fuse or just fry the PS. Is it possible to run two power supplies at the same time? And how much power can the arduino board handle?

    Thanks for any and all replies, Datum
     
  5. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    @Datum I believe the PS is 30 Amps, so unless you are trying to heat both the bed and hotend at the same time there really shouldn't be a problem. But if you are doing this just to get a bigger heater or faster heating, why not go all in and use an SSR and a 120v heater? Then the PS becomes a non-factor in the upgrade.
     
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  6. daniel871

    daniel871 Well-Known Member

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    I think the question there would be how to properly wire things in so that the bed heater is controlled by the arduino/ramps, but actually powered by a secondary power supply.
     
  7. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Set the firmware to BangBang mode for the heater and have the ramps drive a solid state relay that switches the heater power.

    // PID settings:
    // Comment the following line to disable PID and enable bang-bang.
    #define PIDTEMP
     
    #7 mark tomlinson, Oct 22, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2015
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  8. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    @mark tomlinson While this is generally the default way to set up Marlin with a SSR, if you use a good quality SSR and not a cheap Chinese clone, you can still use PID.

    But to answer @daniel871 specifically, the SSR will have a trigger side, usually run by 5 - 24v DC and the output side will switch a 120 - 220v AC. So your bed would be wired directly to the SSR output side and the 120v power supply mains input, then the RAMPS board heater contacts wired to the trigger side. This allows the RAMPS board to control the 120v heater just as if it was a 12v heater directly attached to the RAMPS.

    http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...a_9LTYOkPWVSITeM8UYu4WhSz4Yu7U6n9kaAtaC8P8HAQ
    [​IMG]
     
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  9. daniel871

    daniel871 Well-Known Member

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    Anyone have a link to the kind of switch you're talking about?

    Pretty much the only thing I haven't upgraded/replaced is the bed heater and I figure if I'm going to do it I might as well go for something that will actually improve the heatup/performance of the heated bed.
     
  10. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Just added the links in my original post.

    More specifics, The 120v input will have either two or three wires (hopefully three), they are Ground (green), Hot (white) and Neutral (black). The colors mentioned are universally used by electrical codes throughout the world. You would switch the Hot wire, so one lead to the output side then the other side to the heater. The second heater lead would connect directly to the neutral. The RAMPS side would be obviously plus to plus and negative to negative.
     
    #10 WheresWaldo, Oct 22, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2015
  11. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    True, but my experimentation doesn't show much effective difference... Given how much quicker the higher voltage heaters respond it is actually about the same. Still, PID in theory would be a bit more control.

    I think @Mike Kelly switched to 24v and he can perhaps add more. I just experimented with it, but ended up staying with 12v for now.
     
  12. Datum

    Datum New Member

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    Great minds think alike. That's exactly why i have already ordered a ssr and a custom silicone heater with 120Vac for the power source.Thank you for the reply, Now I feel a little more confident in the way I'm heading.
     
  13. Datum

    Datum New Member

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    I have also ordered some custom made high borosilicate glass 6mm thick hoping it will retain more heat and smooth out any wild temperature fluctuations. Had to order more than one to make it economical because the shipping was really high.:eek:
     
  14. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Wow, @Datum when I said go all in, I wasn't expecting you to replace the bed too.There will be another advantage to going to a 6 mm plate, you will have less flex in the build plate. The current one isn't bad at 4 mm but you can actually see the glass flex during the auto-level routine when it gets to the middle point. I could only imagine how bad the plate flex was with a kickstarter that only had a 3 mm plate.

    The biggest thing for you will be how fast it heats, I also hope you bought something bigger than the 200 x 200 mm heater that Robo speced. I don't know if 250 x 250 mm would fit, it would be close, but you would then have the entire build area heated. Glass is a poor conductor of heat so that is one reason why there are very big fluctuations from edge to center in the current configuration.
     
  15. Datum

    Datum New Member

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    @WheresWaldo

    Well it all started while removing a part, my bed chipped and cracked and the heater went out . I figured that I would go ahead and get a thicker plate and bigger heater. Ordered the same size plate I think 255mm X 385mm and ordering some silicone heaters that will be 230mm by 255mm Single-Ply, one to operate on 12vdc the other on 120vac. Going to see which one works best hopefully without taking out the power supply. Had an issue early on with the original power supply, apparently a solder point, was just that, a point and it dug its way thru the plastic shield inside and shorted on the PS enclosure. Luckily I was there and saw it spark, so I quickly shut it down and tore into it and fixed the problem and the power supply is still humming along, So far.
     
  16. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    That's a known issue with borosilicate glass, it can chip. There are many reports in various 3D print forums addressing this. It does handle temperature extremes better than float glass. Hopefully it all works out for you. Remember to post a new thread with your experience once you have upgraded the heater.
     

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