No official technical support so looking for unofficial

Its now been exactly a week since I posted on the "Technical support" subforum(which is private, for some reason-as if other people wouldn't benefit in case they experienced similar problems) but have received no answer at all. This problem along with the one posted in the "Layers slipping" - http://forums.robo3dprinter.com/index.php?threads/layers-slipping.1113/ - thread, makes every print a pain and with doubtful results(plus I cant print anything that occupies more than 1/3 of the print area, in all directions). So the printer has been sitting in its box for the past 5 days.

I'm copy-pasting the post from the Technical support subforum and if anyone can help it would be much appreciated:


Bed level variates along Y axis

The bed was never level along the Y axis from day one. At first I thought it was an issue with the 4 corner clips and was waiting to implement Tesseract's(Jeff) mod to fix it.​

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As the issue was bad enough to prevent me from printing even small object often, I asked for Jeff's help.​

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We had a skype video call and tried different things. Boro glass turned upside-down, rotated 90 degrees. No change. Boro+heating element removed. No change.​

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We came to the conclusion that it has possibly to do with the Y rails.​

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On the first video, using the dial(in millimeters-one full turn=1mm) I start from Y200(extruder all the way to the back). The bed first gradyally drops about 0.25mm and about 50mm before the Y-home positions it rapidly jumps up by about 0.5mm! Again this big jump happens during the last 5cm(50mm).​

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To show that it hasn't to do with the boro, there is a second video where I have laid a laser pointer on the bed(along Y-axis) pointing to the wall, and you can see the dot moving on the wall. So it is not a curve on the bed, rather than the whole bed rotating as it slides along the rails.​

 

Return it! If they can't answer your questions.

This is what happens when you build a printer that is not tested before shipment.
All they are doing is assembling them for you and saying its ready to print. When its not. Ready to print means fully calibrated and tested.

If these guys acutally calibrated and tested each of these before they got shipped some of these problems would go away..

 

Email robo3dhelp@gmail.com, and you should be able to get a reply there. I'm not sure if or how well the support forum is being monitored, but I've had great success in working with the support guy Jerry via email.

 

The videos of my original post weren't added(even htough the preview showd them), so just added them on the first post.

The post has been read. They are the only ones with access to the thread(apart form me of course) as its private and the counter has gone up. I will email them though and point them to the thread. It is a joke though to think they don't monitor their own forum at all. They obviously do. And definitely the important stuff.



Cambo3D, I hope it won't get to that.

 

I received my unit a few days before the shipment from China arrived to the US, so mine is supposed to be from the US built batch. Not that it should matter. Just saying as you mentioned that the in-house ones were tested as opposed to the overseas units.

I have email them(that I messaged them on their technical support forum(!) over a week ago).

This reminds me of a friend that after sending me an email, he would always send me an sms to let me know he did so...

 

When you guys push the bed along the Y manually, do you get consistent resistance?

I just noticed than on mine, I get a slightly variating resistance-Y position. So it gets a bit harder to push it and then easier and this repeats 4 or 5 times from one end to the other(as opposed to the X that can be moved very smoothly.

Also, when the bed moves along the Y axis, and ONLY when moving towards the back of the printer, there is very often a single click sound. It happens at roughly the same Y position. It seems it's coming from the center of the printer underneath the bed...

The plot thickens...

 

Maybe one of the wires from the heated bed or thermistor? The routing for the wires for my table is HORRIBLE as shipped. The wires were abrading on the Z axis threaded rod until I added some blue painters tape to the threads to protect the wire until I can either reroute the wires or add something else to protect them on a longer term. You should have JUST enough room to peek under the bed and see if anything in catching.

 

I've noticed that mine doesn't get a constant resistance, But I think that is due to how the sliders are designed. The bearings are held in a piece that slides around in between the two metal rails, It shifts from one end to the other when the rails are moved back and forth. I'm not sure if this would really effect the print sinces it's not that much of a change.
The clicking sound, I can't help you with.

 

Removed boro/heat element and woodboard, looking to tighten the pulley(regarding different problem, see http://forums.robo3dprinter.com/index.php?threads/layers-slipping.1113/).

While I was at it, I thought id test each rail individually to check the levelness end to end.

Here are the videos:

Right one


Left one


As you can see, the right one is completely off when close to the very back of the printer. It is even visible without the dial, if you look at the rail closely on the video.

The left one moved up too, but less and on this one its wehn reaching the front of the printer.

One more thing I noticed on the left rail, is that when pushed all the way back, if pushed up, the top bit moves a bit in reference to the bottom part. Something that is not happening on the right rail. Here's a vid.



I'm posting these to the Technical support forum too, even though I still have not heard from teh Robo3d team(9 days now).

Oh, also Mark, thanks for the suggestion but the click I was referring to on my previous post was not the Y endstop.

 

Keraynopoylos, have you emailed support at the robo3dhelp@gmail.com address as well? My post on the tech support forum has also never been responded to, but I've been getting assistance via email. Yeah it usually takes a day between mails, and as far as I know there is just the one guy Jerry who's probably being killed with messages so it's not like you get a reply instantly (plus he's probably got other jobs like helping get those 500 printers out the door and who knows what else) but I usually hear back within 1 business day.

 

Got a reply yesterday night from Jerry, saying that he can't see my message on the Technical support forum as its private.

All messages on that subforum are private b y default. (and he was appointed to provide technical support but was not given permission to see the posts obviously..!)

So I redirected him to this thread here. I'm hoping to get a reply now.

 

Harry is the one that manages the forums and he's been pretty MIA lately so that might explain the permissions issue.

 

That's what I feared! Harry setup the forum for the guys as a favor due to the community request for one, and nobody had the time/experience there to do it... so yeah, my thoughts here were that while folks might be posting to that area for support, nobody who can do anything about it can see the messages. #StartupProblems ​

 

I remain speechless by the support I have(not) been provided by the Robo3 team.

2 weeks after my post(19th of October) in the so called "Technical Support", my thread still has no answer from them.

As I mention on a previous post, after one week of no reply, Matt Schreiner suggested that I emailed them on robo3dhelp@gmail.com, which I did on Saturday 26th of October, including the link to my thread.

On Monday night(UK time, so afternoon California time) I received a reply from Jerry(works on technical support) saying that he can't see my post which must be set to private. I replied straight away that all posts in the Technical support subforum are automatically set to private, so I gave him the link to this thread.

While I got no answer, Jeff(and I thank him for it) contacted Harry and Coby to get their attention to my issue. Coby even asked through Jeff for the link to the post from the Technical Support.

On Thursday night(again, afternoon California time) I received another email from Jerry again, which... well... gives no solution.

And I quote it for the sake of punctuality:

"Dear Pollatos,
Ok, now I’ve read through the whole thread. I’m sorry no one responded to you before. I don’t check the forums. I handle the robo3dhelp@gmail.com email account. Just managing this email account is nearly a full time job. On top of that, I’m managing the production of our machines. We are doing the best we can with the staff we have, but sometimes things can slip through the cracks.
I think what happened was your slides got loose during shipping. Or at least one of them did. On top of that, the glass plate is quite heavy. If the slides aren’t tight, when the slides extend to their extreme positions, the force created by the leveraged weight of the glass will cause the slides to tilt at a slight downwards angle.
We are working on the issue with a new y axis slide system that will use steel bars.
Thank you for being a part of Robo3D!
Thank you for your interest in Robo3D!

Jerry
Team Robo3D"

To this email, I again responded immediately, if he was suggesting that I just tighten the screws that hold the sliders in place.

To the moment I have no answer.

Before someone says "of course that what he means", I have removed the problematic slider and the same obvious-by-just-looking-at-it up-down movement happens when just holding it in my hand and slide it.

So, over two weeks without a working printer and no solution or actual problem acknowledgement so far.

I realise the workload, but apart from shipping them, they must be working too.

BTW the "Technical Support" forum is there for decorative purposes only.
(and I'm no longer wondering why its set to private. Obviously so that no one can see the requests for support remain unanswered.)


aaaaaaand waiting.....

 

Email is the support method they are using. Harry didn't setup the permissions for the Robo team to view threads there, so it's pretty easy to see how that led to problems. I too initially contacted them through the forum tech support line. It's set to private as a default setting for the software. Geesh man, I know you're frustrated... I had my printer die right after I got it and was VERY bummed as well. However, I attempted to gain support through the methods available to me. The forum, email, and the kickstarter email. The one they responded to was the email link. That's what they are using. Yeah, they need to either start using the support forum (when Harry fixes the permissions so they have access) or kill it.

Now, to try and help, yeah... so if your bottom support rails are damaged, then they should be replaced... and once they go through their troubleshooting, I'm sure they will be. These things take some time tho. You've just now entered into the support queue via email, and it'd be wrong to expect the first reply to be "we've got new support rails headed your way" without first doing the basic troubleshootling like making sure everything is tight. It has to be done tho... and yeah, each iteration takes a full business working day. Provide your full diagnostic reply with the problem description, what you've tried, how their suggestion worked (or didn't) and they will do the next step.

If you are REALLY pressed for wanting a printer that works NOW NOW NOW then head down to Home Depot and pick up a set of drawer slides and replace your existing ones with those. That'll get you printing until you get the official fix from Robo. The Y axis slides on your printer are no good, but are on others. Obviously yours are broken/bent/too loose/whatnot.

I'll say that I HAVE been impressed by their support. I received my replacement hotend this morning, got everything re-assembled, did some initial tests, and now I'm retrying my 12.5 hour print that killed my printer previously. Round trip time from first report of the problem, to new parts in hand and printing again took from the initial report of the problem October 22nd, to fix in hand and printing again this AM (Saturday FedEx Delivery, thanks guys!) on November 2nd. A total of 12 days. I'm not complaining, just reporting my experience. I would expect you will be able to have a similar experience, we just could count when your "initial report" start date occurred. I would say your start time was when you emailed them meaning you should have a fix in hand in the next 10-12 days or so. Or, as I said, go to home depot and get some drawer slides and get printing now if you don't want to wait longer... but that's my expectation for what your timeline for resolution will be.

 

Hi Matt and thanks for your reply.

First of all let me say that I am glad you received good support by the Robo3d team. It is also only fair that you share this good experience in the forum.

Let me add though, that this fact doesn't mean I can't write and complain about my experience, that is tragic to say the least.

This forum is the official Robo3d forum. It is within their domain.
It also has a subforum called "Technical Support" which is also set to private, so not open for conversation and knowledge exchange for troubleshooting.
It is therefore completely fair on my behalf to believe that it is there that I should be posting my technical issues.

I did not log into a random 3d printing related forum, found a thread about Robo3d and posted there expecting an official reply.

If they are not monitoring the Technical Support subforum, it shouldn't be there. Simple as that.

Moreover, I think you must have misread my rather clearly posted dates. I can repost them though:

Monday I receive an email that Jerry can't see my thread because he doesn't have access. 4 hours later I respond with the url of this thread. Their next email was on Thursday night. As you can tell, this is not one business day, rather than 3 business days.

In addition, and I realise that my english is not exactly "native"(though I do work in the UK for 7 years now, so it can't be too bad either) but the email I eventually got, was unclear regarding the solution.
I can't tell if it means that due to the screws being loose the rails are bent-as they obviously are- or that he believes I should just tighten the screws and it should be fixed. If it is the former, then it means "sorry, but if they're bent, that's just tough".

In addition, to this email I replied -asking for a clarification of what he proposes- 7 minutes later. I still don't have an answer(would be a very quick one), and it's more than one business day.

So I don't get where you see that I expect less than one business day support.

I do believe I have given all the information possible, through videos so there's no human error(5 different videos to be exact) and have done most of the troubleshooting myself(with the help of Jeff of course) in order to speed up the process.

I know you think I'm overreacting but -as Jeff can confirm, as I was telling him a few days back- all I want is communication. They could say "sorry, intense workload, we acknowledged your problem, will take a while longer to resolve". All I ask is what everyone asks since the kickstarter campaign finished. Communication.

Finally, regarding your "NOW NOW NOW" comment, yes, me being a crybaby for not having a working printer for over 2 weeks now(and still not knowing when I will), I have already found and ordered the drawer runners from a DIY supplier. They should have been here since yesterday but got delayed at the post and will probably have them on Monday.

Once again, glad your problem was resolved promptly and I wish the same for everyone else.

 

In some of my emails with Jerry there was misunderstandings as well as him missing out on some provided detail I'd provided in prior exchanges. Yeah, they are overloaded so taking time to reply is delayed more than we'd hope.

I also agree, that the specific support area of the forum should be monitored or killed. Harry set it up, and he's not part of the Robo team, just a volunteer who offered to help out the guys. The Robo guys don't have control of it as far as I know, only Harry, who's been MIA for a while of late from what I've seen and heard too. It'd not an ideal situation by any means.

I also was TOTALLY bummed out when my printer bit the dust. After waiting so long over the expected time (was my first kickstarter project, I actually believed the delivery estimates I admit! LOL) to have finally had it had me nearly doing cartwheels and backflips as I'd started on a reprap build years previously which I never completed. I've still got most of the project sitting on my workbench in the garage, collecting dust!

I think part of it is that I'm a small business owner, and also worked in Quality Assurance for 20+ years. I have suffered through the problems of an initial hardware release as well as lived through the support nightmares that ensue. Jerry is gonna die if he doesn't get help and more of the Robo team kick in and help with the support function.

I also see that they dropped the ball on your problem and that's a problem. One they need to fix, and soon. As they get more printers into the wild, these issues will only continue. They have some QC issues in China they need to address too. These are the natural outcome of a small business exploding beyond their wildest expectations.

You've got legitimate gripes and complaints which they need to address. I'm not dismissing that by any means. Truth be told I'd fire off a reply within minutes of getting a message from Jerry and -=HOPE=- to get a reply right back. Never happened. I'd eventually get a reply the next day (or so) and typically it'd move the ball further to resolution. Would I have liked it if on my first email, which provided ALL the salient details of the problem, had brought about the same resolution and had my parts en route... You Betcha!

 

Oh yeah, I also wanted to say, don't think I'm just saying "Chill dude!" either. Emotion is hard to interpret over text and I'm pretty straight forward sometimes so please know I'm empathetic to your situation to be sure. You have a right to be frustrated. I might not 100% agree with the tone, but I'd be damn frustrated if I were you too... At least my printer worked for 18 hours before it died the first time. You never had it work at all.