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Nylon printing

Discussion in 'Printing Filament' started by Ben R, Feb 12, 2015.

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  1. Ben R

    Ben R Active Member

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    I thought I heard Mr Tomlinson talk about printing nylon on hair spray.
    I can't do that. It peels up. rips the hairspray from the surface...
    Anyway, for what I have gotten accomplished (with massive brim and glue sticks) comes out pretty nice.

    what do you use to stick down your nylon...

    Btw.. finally tried taulman 618. I like my string trimmer line better. First.. off the shelf string trimmer line is much drier. Second, its a lot firmer. Prints nicer.. less blobby.

    Still.. big deal is platform adhesion.
     
    #1 Ben R, Feb 12, 2015
  2. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    Garolite LE* is the go-to for printing nylon. Though I use elmers glue sticks with Bridge
     
    #2 Mike Kelly, Feb 13, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2015
  3. Ben R

    Ben R Active Member

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    So is that board a consumable? Does it melt on or anything?
     
    #3 Ben R, Feb 13, 2015
  4. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Nylon is like almost the most finicky stuff I have printed with (PET still wins).
    You might need to run the bed hotter if it is peeling dramatically, but like Mike said--use Garolite.

    Something like this, but sized how you want (not recomending this store either, just an example--shop around):

    http://electrontubestore.com/index....d=2004&zenid=309eac227badb205288c010f38a20104

    I used small binder clips to hold it on to my existing bed. I actually got mine locally at a place called Skycraft (local store--sorry).
     
    #4 mark tomlinson, Feb 13, 2015
  5. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    It's a sheet. I don't consider it consumable but it can get marked up.
     
    #5 Mike Kelly, Feb 13, 2015
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  6. Ben R

    Ben R Active Member

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    Ok. Ive tried multiple adhesives. Amazing how i can have trouble getting some materials to come off the platform and nylon just wont' stay put. Going to order the garolite, but also stopping by hardware store for some ideas/experimentation. Once i get my machine working.

    Pet i find to be a bit oozy (pretty well fixed with 2mm rapid retraction on any movement). It doesnt warp , sticks just the right amount. Printed some pretty fine detail with it.
     
    #6 Ben R, Feb 13, 2015
  7. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Yep. When it works the PET is awesome. It seems to be one of the filaments that I actually MUST not leave the temperature constant. As it prints higher layers I have to run it progressively cooler. Thank goodness for Simplify3D.
     
    #7 mark tomlinson, Feb 13, 2015
  8. Ben R

    Ben R Active Member

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    Why? What do you get by lowering the temp? Are you getting overpacking of the layers?

    Probably worth its own thread, but I've been playing with retraction and lift for nylon and PET (especially pet+... seems goopy compared even to PETG)
     
    #8 Ben R, Feb 13, 2015
  9. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    The PET needs to start at a higher temperature to stick and form the first layers than it does to run out the higher ones. I have not yet reasoned it out :) but if I leave it at a constant temp it will just go to crap after 20 layers or so (and will be getting progressively worse after the first 10). So I have a set of layer ranges where I incrementally step down the print temperature... that seems to keep it happy. I don't think I could do this with most of the other software.
     
    #9 mark tomlinson, Feb 13, 2015
  10. Ben R

    Ben R Active Member

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    I printed these with the same settings as my ABS just hotter.
    No problems... uniform all the way, well more than 20 layers. This is PETG. PET+ seems to have useful properties, but.. not fun to print.
     

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    #10 Ben R, Feb 13, 2015
  11. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Yea, I am not using PETG.
     
    #11 mark tomlinson, Feb 13, 2015
  12. Ben R

    Ben R Active Member

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    What flavor of PET?

    Other than the painting/translucence not making it always the most attractive print, I think its going to make up most of my printing.
    I can't stand the moisture absorption of other materials. Time on the machine ruins them. Keep em in a pelican case with a desiccant and still. pain in the butt. even if I made an air tight dispenser, room for error.

    PET+ is good stuff, but over twice the price and doesn't print as nice. Hopefully more waterproof filaments get developed.
     
    #12 Ben R, Feb 13, 2015
  13. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Well, it was the kind of PET printedsolid wanted to clear out of inventory :)

    Technical, no? So I went and looked and it appears it is PET+ by the invoice.
    It is quite picky on printing...
     
    #13 mark tomlinson, Feb 14, 2015
  14. Ben R

    Ben R Active Member

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    yea.. so potentially "bad" PET.... hmm. Hopefully you got a good price.
     
    #14 Ben R, Feb 14, 2015
  15. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Oh yea, and I have printed a few things (small things) with it.
    I still have most of it :)
    I had thought I would use it more than I have, but I like the properties of the other materials better (and they print easier).

    I LOVE the carbon fiber and it that was cheaper I think I'd print everything out of that.
     
    #15 mark tomlinson, Feb 14, 2015
  16. Printed Solid

    Printed Solid Volunteer Admin
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    On the original topic, hairspray really shouldn't be doing anything for nylon bed adhesion. There might be something in it that makes it useful for some of the nylon blends (like bridge) but 618/645 won't benefit from it. For those materials, you need garolite LE or something like it. For small enough parts, you can just use the blue tape with the surface thoroughly cleaned and roughed up for some fibers to grip on ti. It's really the organic fibers that the Nylon sticks to. Of course getting it off the bed can always be fun :)

    It wasn't bad PET, but more of a less than ideal situation for business so I was giving pretty good deals on it to clear it out. I don't sell material that is bad. It goes in the trash if the vendor won't take it back. From what I've heard since, the colorants used in the PET+ have given mixed results. The theory being that they bloom to the surface and don't have the greatest adhesion. I have no idea if this is something that they've corrected since I think it's been a year or more since I've touched it. I have heard that their clear is quite good.

    colorFabb XT (also in the pricier boat) has that completely nailed though. The opaque colors seem to be as strong or stronger than the clear.
     
    #16 Printed Solid, Feb 14, 2015
  17. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    No, not 'bad' PET :) It prints and works.
    It is simply a more finicky print material that I have not really had a need to use much of.

    Also, like I indicated, the newer materials (colorFabb among them) are so much nicer to print with.

    I personally will not bother to get any more, but I will eventually use this up on something. What I have gotten to print looks really nice.
     
    #17 mark tomlinson, Feb 14, 2015
  18. Ben R

    Ben R Active Member

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    You say hair spray won't stick. But I have gotten many smaller parts done with it. It definitely has its limits. I'm not printing "nylon" so much as I'm printing a relatively poorly extruded material with all sorts of nooks and crannies.
    So.. garolite is just a glass infused epoxy. Does it have a surface texture that physically adheres, or does it actually chemically adhere somehow. Not much will adhere to nylon... if anything. But lots of things will mechanically bond with imperfect surfaces.
    Others have been successful with puzzle glue... which is basically elmers glue by the look.

    I was surprised at how different PET+ was from PETG. I can't remember exactly what I was reading, but isn't that basically a PLA containing PET or was that something else? I was hoping for the printiness and strength of PETG, but opaque. Not the case. Limited printiness. or at least finicky printiness.

    Thinking of playing with a piece of polycarb sanded with 120 grit.
     
    #18 Ben R, Feb 14, 2015
  19. Printed Solid

    Printed Solid Volunteer Admin
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    It's not just standard Garolite, it is Garolite LE which has cotton fibers woven in. Rough it up a bit. It's the cotton fibers that the nylon does stick to. I've heard of people casting their own with t-shirts and epoxy.
     
    #19 Printed Solid, Feb 14, 2015
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  20. Ben R

    Ben R Active Member

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    Well.. hopefully I ordered the right kind.

    Looks like i did.. i ordered a generic brand "phenolic sheet". It talks about various fibers in the description.

    Also reading the description.. seems like yea... the process is impregnating a T-shirt with glue. They just use high pressure injection systems.
     
    #20 Ben R, Feb 14, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 14, 2015
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