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Solved Printing using ABS

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Dbeal, Dec 4, 2014.

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  1. Dbeal

    Dbeal Active Member

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    Hey I have a R1 printer and I want to try and use ABS now that I have got PLA down. I do have the oct. hotend and its a heated bed. When I try to print using Simplyfi 3d the bed will heat up but the hot end will never get to temp. to start the printing. I wasn't sure if anyone can help get me going or let me know what I need to do.
     
    #1 Dbeal, Dec 4, 2014
  2. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    What temperature?

    What, exactly, happens?
     
    #2 mark tomlinson, Dec 4, 2014
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  3. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    Try using a different software. Maybe simplify3d is doing something weird. We can't really troubleshoot that software, and only a few users like mark know enough to.
     
    #3 Mike Kelly, Dec 4, 2014
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  4. Galaxius

    Galaxius Well-Known Member

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    Have you increased the max temp in the firmware?
    @Mike Kelly, is that still necessary with the R1 with hex?
     
    #4 Galaxius, Dec 4, 2014
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  5. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    Probably. Firmwares right now are a bit of a black box. Hard to say who has what.
     
    #5 Mike Kelly, Dec 4, 2014
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  6. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Yea, and you knew that was where I was headed asking what temperatures, behaviors, etc. :)
    I suspect he exceeded max temp on the hotend without realizing it.
     
    #6 mark tomlinson, Dec 4, 2014
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  7. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    Judging by what he said I assumed you were on the correct path. Just seems like the users who rock the boat end up going overboard, sometimes they just need to stick with their rowboat until they learn to paddle :)
     
    #7 Mike Kelly, Dec 4, 2014
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  8. Dbeal

    Dbeal Active Member

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    OK, I think I have fixed my issue. Simplify3d had my bed heating up to 100+ and my hotend would not go over 70ish, but I lowed the bed temp and finally got my hotend to get to 225.

    What is the best temp to try for the bed and hotend for abs?

    I have not done anything with the FW at all it's still the factory firmware.
     
    #8 Dbeal, Dec 4, 2014
  9. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    You hit the power limit on the power supply I imagine.
    With the 12v system in the Robo 100 degrees is really the max practical on the bed.
    Run the bed cooler and you should be able to get the temp for the hotend as high as 235.

    This is what the firmware used to have defined as a limit:

    #define HEATER_0_MAXTEMP 235

    Not sure what the default is from Robo in the current ones. With an all-metal hotend this is not a real limit and you could raise it, but with the older J-Head style... this was a hard limit.

    Edit: I think in later firmware they even put a max temp on the bed at 80 degrees.
     
    #9 mark tomlinson, Dec 5, 2014
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  10. Dbeal

    Dbeal Active Member

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    Yes I got to looking at the software and noticed it had the bed going to 100 and I lowered the temp and the hotend was able to get to 235. I may look at raising the temp. up later.

    I have started on printing a rowboat with paddles now :)
     
    #10 Dbeal, Dec 5, 2014
  11. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Just keep any and all drafts off of the bed. ABS is hard to do without a heated chamber (it warps easy and often).
    Print as cool and slow as you can (235 is reasonable).
     
    #11 mark tomlinson, Dec 5, 2014
  12. Dbeal

    Dbeal Active Member

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    Thanks for everyone's help Mark, Mike and Galaxius
     
    #12 Dbeal, Dec 5, 2014
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  13. Ziggy

    Ziggy Moderator
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    If that's what has happened then it does not make sense. The glass transition temp of ABS is approx 105c.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrylonitrile_butadiene_styrene

    The bed needs to be above that glass transition temp to minimise ABS warping.

    I increased my ABS bed temp to 115c and voilla!! No more warping.
     
    #13 Ziggy, Dec 5, 2014
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  14. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I run mine hotter than that as well and I was not commenting on the correctness of such a limit.
    Just noting it :)
    I don't run the latest firmware by any stretch.

    Looking at the 6_10 version I see this:

    #define BED_MAXTEMP 115

    So yea, you should be able to get that hot without it shutting down.
     
    #14 mark tomlinson, Dec 5, 2014
  15. Dbeal

    Dbeal Active Member

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    Do you need to upgrade power supply to get to these temps or just adjust firmware?
     
    #15 Dbeal, Dec 5, 2014
  16. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    110 will be pretty difficult on 12v and that heater.

    Ramps 1.4 can natively go up to 16v. 24v is possible with a few modifications.

    You can replace the mosfet to reduce current drop and get more power to the heater.

    That said if you want to go above 85 you need to modify the firmware.
     
    #16 Mike Kelly, Dec 5, 2014
  17. SteveC

    SteveC Well-Known Member

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    I get 110C reliably with the Kickstarter bed and a better MOSFET although it takes a long time to heat up. I am pretty sure that even with the original MOSFET the bed could be maintained at over 105C.

    I got the 4mm bed "upgrade" but have not installed it yet. I noticed that it has a cork insulator and aluminum tape underneath the heater.

    I would take the above advice:
    • Modify the firmware for 115C or so max
    • Keep drafts off the printer
    Plus never leave the printer alone and make sure you have a smoke alarm nearby;).
     
    #17 SteveC, Dec 5, 2014
  18. Ziggy

    Ziggy Moderator
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    I get a 12v heated bed temp of 115c reliably and it will hold temp provided the parts fan is not running more than about 30% (and the fan is generally not needed for ABS anyway). I've added some insulation under the bed and the bed gets to 115c from ambient in 6 minutes. Holds temp at about 65% power.

    Mark,

    I certainly wasn't suggesting your comment about a 80c limit in the firmware did not make sense. It was that the bed temp limit had been reduced by the Robo guys that didn't make sense to me.
     

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    #18 Ziggy, Dec 5, 2014
  19. Galaxius

    Galaxius Well-Known Member

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    Have you installed your relay for the bed? That's still on my to-do list.
     
    #19 Galaxius, Dec 5, 2014
  20. Ziggy

    Ziggy Moderator
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    I had to do it a different way - I will PM you to explain
     
    #20 Ziggy, Dec 5, 2014
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