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Unanswered PRINTinZ bed and bed leveling

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Oisin, Jul 18, 2016.

  1. Oisin

    Oisin Member

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    Hi guys.

    I bought a PRINTinZ bed a few months ago to (hopefully) get rid of blue tape forever! I only just got around to installing it and have been having adhesion issues all day.

    My z-offset is -0.07. That results in corner lift. A z-offset of -0.06 results in no filament being placed on the bed.

    I cannot use the left half of the bed at all as the bed is not level. The autolevel sequence seems to have no impact whatsoever and does not actually work for me.

    Do you have any other recommendations for getting a very level bed that stays level?

    Thanks to anyone who replies! If the bed leveling issue disappeared the printer would be so much easier to use.
     
    #1 Oisin, Jul 18, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2016
  2. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    If you have done a paper level and no matter what you do one side is lower than the other shim that low side between the magnets (hole punched paper corcles, shim stock, bubble gum, whatevers clever) to raise the low sode and level and try again
     
    #2 Geof, Jul 19, 2016
  3. Oisin

    Oisin Member

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    Understood. I will give that a go. Should the autolevel feature not compensate for it though?
     
    #3 Oisin, Jul 19, 2016
  4. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    It will ... To a point. The closer your auto level numbers the better off you'll be. I had to shim mine for auto level to work correctly
     
    #4 Geof, Jul 19, 2016
  5. Oisin

    Oisin Member

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    And can you use the entire bed area with no issues or warping with PLA? That would of course be ideal.
     
    #5 Oisin, Jul 19, 2016
  6. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Yes sir. Every day without fail. Getting auto level and the first layer correct is the key. To low of a z offset and you will have issues to high and your printing off the bed. You want a nice squished layer but not so squished that it makes "ruts" from the nozzle
     
    #6 Geof, Jul 19, 2016
  7. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    If the auto level numbers are crazy off there is the problem. Shim the low side and try again.

    Edit: Try again after shims and a paper level
     
    #7 Geof, Jul 19, 2016
  8. Oisin

    Oisin Member

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    Ok and another dumb question: How do you do a paper level with Simplify3D? I've only ever done it using Matterslicer but I don't use that anymore.
     
    #8 Oisin, Jul 19, 2016
  9. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Its the same process :) lower the nozzle to the bed until a piece of paper just fits under the nozzle. Power down the printer. Move the nozzle to the other side adjust until the piece of paper feels the same side to side by turning the threaded rod and holding the other ones. If your looking for jog controls i think you press control and p and it brings up the print controller. Go to jog tab
     
    #9 Geof, Jul 20, 2016
  10. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    #10 mark tomlinson, Jul 20, 2016
  11. Oisin

    Oisin Member

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    Thanks guys. Geof, I went to do the paper shimming method you mentioned and ran an autolevel sequence to get a starting point. Here is the progress I made:

    READ: Bed x: 15.00 y: 20.00 z: 0.12
    READ: Bed x: 110.00 y: 20.00 z: 0.18
    READ: Bed x: 205.00 y: 20.00 z: -0.54
    READ: Bed x: 205.00 y: 125.00 z: -0.87
    READ: Bed x: 110.00 y: 125.00 z: 0.04
    READ: Bed x: 15.00 y: 125.00 z: -0.12
    READ: Bed x: 15.00 y: 230.00 z: 0.17
    READ: Bed x: 110.00 y: 230.00 z: 0.32
    READ: Bed x: 205.00 y: 230.00 z: -0.40

    Which is lain out over my bed in the way the attached image shows. The image tells me I need to raise the left hand side of the bed by (about) 500 microns before performing the paper level.

    After shimming the left side with 5 circles of paper (which should be 500 microns), I re-ran the autolevel sequence to see what the new readings were:

    READ: Bed x: 15.00 y: 20.00 z: -0.54
    READ: Bed x: 110.00 y: 20.00 z: -0.54
    READ: Bed x: 205.00 y: 20.00 z: -0.75
    READ: Bed x: 205.00 y: 125.00 z: -0.73
    READ: Bed x: 110.00 y: 125.00 z: 0.19
    READ: Bed x: 15.00 y: 125.00 z: 0.19
    READ: Bed x: 15.00 y: 230.00 z: 0.48
    READ: Bed x: 110.00 y: 230.00 z: 0.49
    READ: Bed x: 205.00 y: 230.00 z: -0.44

    Image 2 illustrates that this in fact did not correct the issue but presented the same one in different places.

    Rerunning the autolevel sequence without changing anything provides completely different measurements:

    READ: Bed x: 15.00 y: 20.00 z: 0.30
    READ: Bed x: 110.00 y: 20.00 z: 0.22
    READ: Bed x: 205.00 y: 20.00 z: -0.58
    READ: Bed x: 205.00 y: 125.00 z: -0.70
    READ: Bed x: 110.00 y: 125.00 z: 0.03
    READ: Bed x: 15.00 y: 125.00 z: -0.40
    READ: Bed x: 15.00 y: 230.00 z: 0.39
    READ: Bed x: 110.00 y: 230.00 z: 0.29
    READ: Bed x: 205.00 y: 230.00 z: -0.82

    This leads me to believe using the autolevel to get an idea of what to shim is not reliable. So I left in the 500 micron shim and tried the paper level to see what the result would be.

    I then ran a print with the z-offset raised from it's previous -0.07 to 0.1 since I was no longer sure -0.07 would be correct and I didn't want to damage my PRINTinZ plate. I retuned the z-offset, which was now -0.06 and tested printing a cube in each of the 9 autolevel points at once. The top middle, top left and middle left were too close to the bed and nothing got extruded, so I removed one of the pieces of paper from the top left corner and tried again.

    I added 2 pieces under each corner of the right hand side and for now it seems to be printing relatively ok. The adhesion on the PRINTinZ bed is still very poor even though I was advised not to squish the 1st layer too much or getting it off would be a problem. We'll see how it goes.

    Sorry for the long post. I just wanted to record each step so you could point out anything I'm doing wrong and maybe so anyone else who finds this thread and is having the same issue can solve it too.
     

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    #11 Oisin, Jul 20, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2016
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  12. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    In reality if the x is level you can rig up an indicator and get a more exact level number for shims but in practice if you shim the lowside, repaper level and run a print it should be much better.
     
    #12 Geof, Jul 20, 2016
  13. Oisin

    Oisin Member

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    I've always noticed how flexible the Robo bed is. When the extruder nozzle touches it it flexes downwards slightly. Do you think this would result in incorrect autolevel compensations?
     
    #13 Oisin, Jul 20, 2016
  14. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    It will affect it to a certain extent.
    Other types of probes or sensors are less problematic (but are more hardware).

    Completely changing the algorithm (such as the new MESH leveling Marlin is developing) is a better approach.
     
    #14 mark tomlinson, Jul 20, 2016
  15. Oisin

    Oisin Member

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    Interesting. And since Marlin are developing it would it be something that can be included in the Robo's firmware?
     
    #15 Oisin, Jul 20, 2016
  16. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    #16 mark tomlinson, Jul 20, 2016
  17. Oisin

    Oisin Member

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    Very cool. Thanks Mark.
     
    #17 Oisin, Jul 20, 2016

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