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Prometheus Hot End - Indigogo Project

Discussion in 'Mods and Upgrades' started by JohnStack, Apr 8, 2014.

  1. JohnStack

    JohnStack New Member

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    Hi,

    I've been in touch with Eric Sammut, designer of an all new hot end with a single piece nozzle. For advanced makers, it is customizable for different materials (that have different reactions to melt and transition zones.)

    It has been well received in other forums and I'm sure Eric would love to get some support. He's a good guy. Quite young - 19. We need to encourage young makers like this as much as possible! They're pushing the envelope!

    Here's the campaign:

    https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/prometheus-hot-end
     
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  2. RP Iron Man

    RP Iron Man Member

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    Thanks John!

    If anyone on these forums has any questions about the Prometheus Hot End just ask and I will be happy to answer them :)

    I have spent a lot of time on developing, testing, and optimizing this design over the past several months and I can explain any features that may be unclear. This is a very innovative design and I really hope you guys can help make it a reality!

    Regards,
    Eric
     
  3. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    Does increasing the melt zone decrease the pressure required to extrude? I could see it being beneficial for single extruder fast print situations.

    Besides that I feel like you'd want to minimize the melt zone to decrease oozing and stringing.

    I see on your post that it would but I just struggle to imagine a situation where it would be really beneficial.
     
  4. RP Iron Man

    RP Iron Man Member

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    Hey Mike,

    A longer "melt-zone" means that there is a larger volume of molten plastic in the hot end, and therefore allows you to extrude at higher feed rates, so it is better suited for high speed printing. For high speed applications you may want say, about a 20mm "melt-zone". For standard printing applications at average speeds, a 15mm "melt-zone" would be best. If you are printing really detailed objects at low speeds, then you can get away with a shorter 10 to 12mm "melt-zone".

    You are right in that increasing the "melt-zone" has a negative effect by increasing the amount of "ooze" and decreasing extrusion/retraction responsiveness. There is a trade-off involved here.

    Eric
     
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  5. SoLongSidekick

    SoLongSidekick Active Member

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    Do you have any before/after pictures of the benefits of this level of customization on a per filament type basis?

    Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
     
  6. Ziggy

    Ziggy Moderator
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    Do you have different nozzle sizes available?
     
  7. RP Iron Man

    RP Iron Man Member

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    Unfortunately I don't have controlled testing on the before/after effects of customization. I ended up printing different objects with many different settings which does not really isolate the "melt-zone" variables. I am sending a prototype to RepRap Core Developer "Sublime" (Brad, designer of Tantillus 3d printer) and he is going to do a review about this. I will let you guys know when that is up. Stay tuned!

    @Ziggy

    So far only 0.4mm. after the campaign I am going to be looking at 0.25mm and 0.6mm nozzle orifice diameters.

    Eric
     
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  8. RP Iron Man

    RP Iron Man Member

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    Hey guys,

    The campaign is now 60% funded! Thanks to the latest contributors.

    I have a few updates for everyone. I recently sent out a prototype to RepRap Core Developer "Sublime" (Brad M, Designer of Tantillus 3D printer) and yesterday I sent out another prototype to Michael Zenner (aka "ZennmasterM") from 3D Hacker for a review. Michael Zenner has done many reviews on hot ends so stay tuned for his review of the Prometheus Hot End prototype!

    These reviews should be up in the next week. I am also still trying to get in contact with Richard Horne "RichRap" about doing a review of Prometheus.

    In other news, Prometheus Early Bird production has commenced! I sent the prepayment for production to my manufacturer and they are preparing to start machining the parts. I expect to be shipping by mid May so grab your Early Bird kit today!

    There is a lot going on so I am going to try to keep everyone informed. Spread the word so we can put this funding goal behind us!

    Happy printing!

    Eric
     
  9. RP Iron Man

    RP Iron Man Member

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    Hello Everyone,
    The campaign is almost fully funded with over $2500 in contributions! Thanks to the latest contributors.
    A few updates for you all. RepRap Core Developer Brad aka "Sublime" is working on a review and Michael "ZennmasterM" Zenner will receive his prototype for testing in the next few days! We will likely be seeing the reviews in the next week. I also managed to get in contact with Richard Horne. He is currently tied up with work but he happily agreed to do a review sometime in the next few weeks!
    Recently I have been working on getting my website up and running. It should be up in the next few days so I will keep you guys informed when it goes up.
    The components are starting to arrive! Earlier today I received the bulk order for the thermistors and resistor heaters for Prometheus. Most of the components are already on order so I am just waiting for them to arrive. The production run for the machined parts is well under way and going smoothly as planned.
    Let's keep this campaign going!
    Happy printing :)
    Eric
     
  10. nak1017

    nak1017 New Member

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    Hey Eric,
    Nice campaign and product, and an interesting read...
    Is there any advantage to having a long transition-zone?
     
  11. RP Iron Man

    RP Iron Man Member

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    The customizable "transition-zone" is more of an added feature that results from the modular design of Prometheus. The key is the customizable "melt-zone", but the customizable "transition-zone" does allow for some interesting experimentation. In terms of performance, you will always want a short 2-3mm "transition-zone" as this minimizes the size of the "transition-zone" plug and therefore minimizes the friction in the hot end, increasing reliability.

    However, there is a reason why the "transition-zone" cannot be shorter than 2-3mm and this is because the shorter "transition-zone" results in more heat loss through the "thermal break". Having a 0mm "transition-zone" would be like trying to cool the top half of your aluminium heater block while the heater was turned on... So the benefit of lengthening the "transition-zone" is that you are minimizing the amount of heat that is lost through the "thermal break" and therefore increasing the efficiency of your heater.

    Also, experimenting with different "transition-zone" lengths would allow you to test the relative "point of friction failure" of various plastics by incrementally increasing the length of the "transition-zone" until the hot end jams. You will find that PLA jams more easily while you can get away with a longer "transition-zone" printing ABS.

    TL/DR -----
    Performance: always short "transition-zone" length.
    Experimenting: various "transition-zone" lengths.

    Eric
     
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  12. splk3

    splk3 New Member

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    There doesn't look like a lot of space between the mounting ring and the headsink - will this even fit in the R1 robo? The standard j-head has to insert quite a ways into the carriage.
     
  13. nak1017

    nak1017 New Member

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    I kinda figured the transition-zone was an "as short as possible" type thing... but yea, I'm sold.
    I've already got an E3D on my printer, but your hot-end looks like it might have more potential so take my money.
     
  14. JohnStack

    JohnStack New Member

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    Hi,

    In reviewing Prometheus' design and speaking with Eric, it has a standard J-head mount similar to that of the E3D or other printers. On the Robo3D, there are two screws that fit into the slot on either side of the J-head. They hold the hot end in. The E3D has a similar structure and dimensionality. When I put mine on the robo3d, i just loosened the screws up and slid the new head in and tightened them back down. Easy breezy.
     
  15. splk3

    splk3 New Member

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    awesome - I think I have one of those in my future!
     
  16. Ziggy

    Ziggy Moderator
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    You have my money. All the best for a very successful campaign Eric.

    Looking forward to those smaller nozzle size too :)
     
  17. nak1017

    nak1017 New Member

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    Worst case scenario is printing a modified X-carriage
     
  18. RP Iron Man

    RP Iron Man Member

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    Great News!

    Thanks to all of the supporters! Prometheus is now fully funded!

    I really appreciate all of the support from everyone in the 3D printing community. This hot end has great potential and thanks to you guys it will soon become a reality!

    Now that the funding goal is behind us I am thinking about possible stretch goals to keep things rolling. Many people were asking about different nozzle sizes so I think that would make an appropriate stretch goal. I will need more funds to do a production run of a different nozzle size, so having more funds available would allow me to get started on this sooner.

    I was debating between a smaller 0.25mm nozzle or a larger 0.6mm nozzle. A 0.25mm nozzle would be ideal for very detailed printing, while a 0.6mm nozzle would be great for faster printing and would also allow Prometheus to print Taulman T-Glase.

    Let me know which optional nozzle size you guys would prefer in the comments!

    Thanks again for all of the support!

    Happy Printing :)

    Eric
     
  19. Ziggy

    Ziggy Moderator
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    Well done!!

    I would prefer the 0.25 nozzle. But I presume you will also offer the 0.6mm at some point?
     
  20. RP Iron Man

    RP Iron Man Member

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    Hey Guys,

    We are now well past the funding goal. Thanks so much to all of the supporters!

    I have received a lot of input about possible stretch goals and I am currently weighing all of my options. Just so you guys know, I plan on offering BOTH 0.25mm and 0.6mm nozzles in the future, but I am just trying to get an idea of what people are more interested in.

    I have also been asked about offering a bowden integrated heat sink. I realized that this is an important feature that many people would appreciate so I am working on a solution for this. I will likely offer an option of bowden or standard heat sink for all supporters before I start shipping. The bowden hot ends may ship a few weeks later than the standard hot ends. Anyway, I will be sure to let everyone know once I have all of the details sorted.

    Let's keep this campaign going!

    Happy printing :)

    Eric
     

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