1. Got a question or need help troubleshooting? Post to the troubleshooting forum or Search the forums!

Simplify 3D can't home the Z-axis, might be a switch issue

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Kaan, Sep 3, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Kaan

    Kaan Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2014
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    13
    After I started using Simplify 3D, I started understanding 3D printers more, as many issues occurred during the process

    One of the issues I couldn't solve is Z-homing, it seems the left switch is either ignored or doesn't work, Simplify 3D stops when the right switch is relaxed, by this time the left switch is 1.2mm's high

    I can fix this issue by moving the head to 1.2mm and manually resetting the Z axis at that point or by setting a G-code z-offset of 1.15mm, the prints are satisfactory

    Either the switch has issues, or I'm missing something obvious, should I maybe manually calibrate the nuts on the z-axis to equalize the left/right height? (I mean turn the nuts upwards so the 1.2mm height issue disappears)

    (Also one other small questions, everyone talks about updated firmware's, however I see no firmware guides, can anyone point me to a post/article about firmwares and upgrades?)

    Thanks in Advance
     
  2. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    23,917
    Likes Received:
    7,338
    (I must caution this response by pointing out I have a BETA, not an R1--no auto bed leveling)

    I think by default the switches are in parallel (?)

    Which would mean both have to activate for the software to think they are 'at the limit'. So you may have to adjust the nuts to get them so that the limit switches are activating where they should (or where you want).

    In the @Mike Kelly mod for auto-leveling I think he had them set up in series (which makes a *LOT* more sense) where either of the switches activating signals the limit. (and just as a plug, if I add auto leveling--and I might--I will use Mikes version as it is a smarter way to go)
     
  3. Kaan

    Kaan Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2014
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    13
    I get your point, I'm also unaware how much of the stuff software calculates itself, however there was also a min/average/max setting for the home-z, I didn't try it, I hope they activate together, otherwise I have a defective one, it would also be easy to test them however it's a bit risky as when they are not pressed, the cables and the unit start rolling into the rod

    What does auto-bed levelling do?

    I guess I should power the machine up and, traverse the bed a bit, and see if there is actually an imbalance and correct it
    (I also sent a -Z trigger manually below the limit once, it was a huge mistake, the left switch/unit started rolling into the rod, however the imbalance was present before this event too, as I remember, at the same amount)
     
  4. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    23,917
    Likes Received:
    7,338
    Auto bed leveling uses the Z axis limit switches and has the head 'probe' the bed in various spots (9 I think) looking for the limit switches to activate (so it knows the head is 'on the bed') and then calculates what the Z height limit should be (there is also a fixed offset that you should have had included with your printer that gets added into the calculation). So it becomes:

    Z start height = sensed limit + fixed offset

    and it remembers these factors for the various points sensed (and probably calculates a fixed plane across all 9 points) and tweaks it as needed.
     
  5. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    23,917
    Likes Received:
    7,338
    Frankly I find the tech quite cool, but if it has problems it seems more complicated to sort out than manually leveling where the only factor is the dufus behind the print bed (in my case--me). Of course, if it works then it is way easier :)
     
  6. Kaan

    Kaan Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2014
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    13
    I also wonder whether this z-axis offsets (for the auto bed levelling) are on the software level or the hardware level, the method you described sounds simple and logical
    I would assume it's on the hardware level since you stated it's R1-only

    In that case, I guess, If I use Simplify 3D, should i go back to MatterControl and calibrate-Z once in a while?

    It would be more logical if it was on the software level, because it seems the idea could apply to any device (I probably should research 3D-printer programming logic, commands, g-code and how things work. I'm basing my actions on assumptions like a dufus myself too :)

    I would appreciate any advice on this matter and using Simplify 3D in general, I decided to halt thing for a while, until I learn more and not repeat any common mistakes
     
  7. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    23,917
    Likes Received:
    7,338
    It is both. It has some hardware (the switches for the Z axis) and the firmware to sense/use that data.
    Simplify will not use MatterControls data so you need to get the Z offset tuned in for it. Someone with an R1 should be able to comment on how to configure it for using the auto-leveling. I can say that with the old version (the beta) it works flawlessly. Once I got the bed leveled it was game on.
    It should be as simple as configuring the startup GCode (which will include that factory offset number) and that is it (but again, not an R1 owner so I have not tried that)
     
  8. Kaan

    Kaan Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2014
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    13
    Your ball-print post sold me the software :)
    I also had a lot of issues with support structures before Simplify 3D, and even with the leveling issues, the incomplete print had really impressive support structures (windows restarted during the print, the tail of the tiger wasn't latched to the surface anyway, so it was a good coincidence)

    Anyway, I hope someone aids me soon, my new filaments are arriving tomorrow, can't wait to start printing again :)
     
  9. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    23,917
    Likes Received:
    7,338
    Well, can you adjust the nuts on the threaded rods so that the switches are activated more closely together?
    (kind-of blind contemplation here sine I don't have an R1 to look at).

    If so that might help OR, you could (I know, this part is more complicated) if you are motivated switch the contacts to be in series (a la the @Mike Kelly version of the auto-level modification). It would mean rewiring the switches to be in series and might mean a firmware tweak (not sure, wouldn't think so, but might). That way either switch opening will trigger the limit. Read mikes thread, it has more details:

    http://forums.robo3dprinter.com/index.php?threads/robo3d-autolevel-via-mike-kelly.2574/
     
  10. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    23,917
    Likes Received:
    7,338
    Hah! His thread has this section: Current Autolevel owners:

    which tells you how to do it his way ;)

    (guess I should have read it more closely first)


    I LOVE the supports in Simplify. That was totally worth the cost of the software all by itself.
    Their support is pretty good as well. I had a problematic part, sent it to them and they tweaked the model and sent it back. Not a software problem really (or not really theirs) but they sorted it. Their slicer is extremely sophisticated in how it calculates the tool-paths and that means trying to second guess it is futile.
     
  11. Kaan

    Kaan Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2014
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    13
    I checked the rod balance, they seem pretty balanced, the issue seems pretty natural, there is no way the both switches could activate at the same time, as the nozzle is not on the same level with the switches, one of them will always go first

    So it's either manual calibration (works well) or switch/firmware modification

    Is there any way to fix this issue by leaving the cable configuration alone? (If the switches are connected to one port, either in series or parallel, I guess not, but if they are 2 seperate switches, it may be possible, haven't checked the internals yet)
     
  12. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    23,917
    Likes Received:
    7,338
    AFAIK, the R1 has them wired in parallel (and the Beta did not have them).
    If you added the auto-leveling kit it is probably in parallel.
    Switching them to be in series is pretty easy (I would think).

    Can't comment on the mechanics since I do not have one to eyeball.
     
  13. Invertmast

    Invertmast Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2014
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    58
    Each switch works individually in the stock wiring setup from what i can tell. I had a similar problem in that one switch wouldnt activate and it was throwing the offset way off. It endes up being a broken wire in the heatshrink tubing on one of the Z switches.
     
  14. Kaan

    Kaan Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2014
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    13
    Thanks for the reply, So are you saying that any of the switches should stop the homing (not both of them together), my switch or wiring is faulty, and I should check the connections? (this sounds logical)

    Is there any easy way to verify the switch functionality, I would appreciate a nudge in this direction, a datasheet, or better yet, an online tutorial or a simple explanation would be great
     
  15. Invertmast

    Invertmast Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2014
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    58
    You can use the M119 command in repetiwe or matter control and that will tell you what the status of your switches are. That will at least tell you if the switches are working properly.
     
  16. Kaan

    Kaan Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2014
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    13
    That's a great idea thanks, will do that
     
  17. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2013
    Messages:
    6,967
    Likes Received:
    2,277
    Best way to test a switch is with a multimeter testing for conductivity (resistance). M119 is good as well but would mistake a wire break for a switch failure.
     
  18. Kaan

    Kaan Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2014
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    13
    by looking at the M119 data, it seems both switches needs to be activated for the z-switch flag to trigger

    I've also hoped using the MatterControl starting G-Code would somehow trigger the firmware to calculate the z-offsets itself, however, although the machine reports the calculations, I think the software needs to handle them, so it's pretty much pointless using that G-code in Simplify3D

    My bed seems to be unleveled from left to right too, so at large prints, this prevents the nozzle from extruding, it's impossible to print anything large with Simplify3D, with MatterControl, I can't dare do it, it fails at the support structures and converts the print into an ABS blob

    I'm going to print 0,8mm-1,1mm disk spacers and put them in between the magnets to manually level the bed, does it sound like a good idea? :)
     
  19. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    23,917
    Likes Received:
    7,338
    You need to open a ticket with Simplify3D support and bring this to them
    They answer pretty quick (during the week) and they can even review models for flaws, they know their software and are pretty nice to work with.
    They know their slicer.

    Plus, if they fix it, we all win :cool:
     
  20. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2013
    Messages:
    6,967
    Likes Received:
    2,277
    the offset and auto-level is the same for cura. Define a Z offset in the gcode and run the marlin G29
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page