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Solved Temp Fall/Fail Error and fix?

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by cbnlnk121, Apr 26, 2017.

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  1. cbnlnk121

    cbnlnk121 New Member

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    Hi all, been a while since I've had any thing go wrong with printer (R1 kickstarter version). Upgrades include E3Dv6, XXL LCD.

    Lately, I've been printing (via sdcard) PETG @235C with bed @80C. The last few prints have temp fall or fail about 75% complete.
    After the first fail, I attempted to restart the print and it would heat up as usual, then home, then freeze with temp fall error. Thinking loose connection I moved it to a elevated position and set temps then shook wires. No fluctuations in temp. I lifted the printer to check connections and good there too.

    Little back history, last time this happened I searched and read about possible faults do I ordered a new thermister and it went away until now. I've got some new heaters (40w) on the way to try and see if the change from the 25w stock E3Dv6 will fix it.

    If it doesn't, I'd like to be able to monitor the running code and errors real time but not sure what software to use. If not, any suggestions on changing firmware settings like changing #define Heater_0_mintemp 5 to say 30?
    Or #define thermal_protection_hotends under configuration_adv.h file settings?

    Thanks I advance, hoping this is a simple solution. - Jim

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  2. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    It is usually a weak heater core, too much cool air flow around hotend and/or the thermistor.
    Can you disable the protection in the firmware? Sure, but you are on your own there :)

    I can almost guarantee that switching to the 40w core will sort this out, but make sure the thermistor you do have in there is firmly mounted in place and not loose or moving around when the extruder moves.
     
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  3. cbnlnk121

    cbnlnk121 New Member

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    Well, I didn't want to disable the protection just adjust the amount of time before it kicks in (if possible). I'm running the V3 firmware which did help other functions.

    As for the thermistor, I think my first one failed because it was too tight. When I swapped it, it had the set screw dent in it. This one I was more careful installing it and just firmed it up. I gave it a little tug and had checked all my connections prior to posting since there are so many posts about this issue.

    Good to know that maybe just a weak heater. They are cheap to buy the 40w versions.

    What about monitoring the code while printing from the LCD via Sdcard? Suggestions on that or adjusting the heater temp setting?

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  4. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    The difference between any of the Robo provided firmware versions is very minimal and nothing of consequence really.
    My suggestion for firmware would be to either move to Marlin 1.10 (there is a thread on this) or wait until 1.10 is released from development mode and then plan on upgrading. It does offer a number of significant new features.

    I have nothing of value to offer on monitoring. I am not sure adjusting the temperature will help since the error is related to a % change/delta in the temperature... If it is dropping enough now to trigger the error then higher temperature will as well. Sadly there are a couple of issues with Marlin design (and I have no desire to chase them since that means "fixing it myself"*) one being that the firmware is "single-threaded" (Arduino after all) and when it is off sampling the autoleveling points it is NOT really doing anything else (and that includes keeping the temperature adjusted). If it is sending (for example) 50% PWM to the hotend heater to maintain the temperature steady and it starts the autoleveling samples it will NOT increase that PWM (even if the temperature drops) until after it is finished with the autoleveling dance (the 9-point samples). In that time the temperature may well drift and then when the extruder starts to actually print and gets back to paying attention -- Boom! temperature has drifted and the error is raised. A weaker heater core will exacerbate this situation and any extra airflow around the hotend will too. This will be largely addressed in 1.10 since you can switch to mesh and not have to do the bed sampling every print -- only when you want to refresh the MESH stored in EEPROM.



    *I have ideas about how to solve this, but I don't have the time to dedicate to reworking it for them :)
     
  5. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    One other (obvious) alternative is that you can manually level the bed and then turn off the ABL :)
    I did this on the C2 and never looked back. Pre-R1 this was the only way to print anyway...
    I am not suggesting it is a better approach, but it certainly moots the ABL issues with temperature falling
     
  6. cbnlnk121

    cbnlnk121 New Member

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    Yeah, so mine never autoleveled so I'm good there I guess. Lol
    Kickstarter version ftw. ;)

    I'll take a look at Merlin 1.10 as suggested. Thanks for the rest of the info to. I might change the temp swing to 10 from 5 to see if its less sensitive over the long term.

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  7. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Two of my printers started out as KS beta versions. Fine machines to work with and I eventually upgraded one to an R1 equivalent and the other to an R1+. Still making mods to them :)
     
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  8. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Also PID tuning your hotend will assist in keeping the temps more consistant


    I don't think that Marlin 1.1.0 ignores the temps when auto-leveling, but I haven't used auto-level since MESH was introduced.
     
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  9. cbnlnk121

    cbnlnk121 New Member

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    I really do like this printer. TBH I picked this printer up about a year or so ago for $150 from a guy who had given up on it. It was missing a hotend and needed a full going through. After testing it with a Hexagon head, the E3Dv6 was a no brainer.

    Yep, I'll definitely be running the PID Autotune again when I install the replacement heater. Thanks for the reminder. I did run it when I swapped out the thermistor.

    What is this MESH you speak of?



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  10. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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  11. cbnlnk121

    cbnlnk121 New Member

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    So I've replaced the heater to the 12v 40w version. Unfortunately, it didn't sold my temp fall error. After running the autotune 2x times (10 cycles each), I can watch the temp still jump multiple degs.

    Any suggestions on where I can start to modify the firmware to increase temp tolerances?

    Sent from my ASUS_Z00AD using Tapatalk
     
  12. cbnlnk121

    cbnlnk121 New Member

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    Any thoughts of changing these settings?


    //Check for thermistor temerature freefall during the print,
    //This usually indicates that the thermistor has been removed from the head.
    #define TEMP_SENSOR_DISCONNECT_CHECK 1
    #define TEMP_SENSOR_DISCONNECT_LIMIT 10

    I can't seem to find any information on the Marlin wiki about them. Are these a on/off number for the check or a 1 sec/min rule?
    Can I assume the 10 for the limit is 10 secs or min? Any info. would be helpful.
     
  13. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I suspect the first one enables/disables it, but I have not looked at it.
    You can browse through their wiki or join the devs mailing list.
    I used to listen in there, but gave up a year or so back. I don't have the time to really be a contributor any more.
     
  14. cbnlnk121

    cbnlnk121 New Member

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    Well, I think I have good news. I've had the time to play with both the settings and printer. I finally got a good PID tune on it. It appears the autotune feature is best as a reference and not as "perfect". It took me maybe about 10 runs of 5 cycles to get it zero'ed in enough that the temp now only jumps less then +/- 1 deg C.

    Once I got it there, I was able to try find if I had a loose connection. I traced out the lines, re-ran them from the board up. There were no breaks or weak spots until I reached the "quick disconnect" that comes with the thermistors. As soon as I touched it temp fluctuations were intense. So, I just removed the thermistor and cut off the plug. I had some JST connectors (from drones I build) and soldered one of those in it's place. Repeated the testing from board back and ZERO issues. It now stays within the same tolerance as expected.

    I should not that I was monitoring via Repeater-Host the entire time for all my work. That's a great piece of software for the graphing. It's too bad Cura doesn't have the same feature set. I'd like to take manual control, see the scrolling commands/info and watch the graph so I can really see what's happening.

    Thanks for the help, Closing this issue and setting resolved.
     
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