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Thingiverse Rant - manifold

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by KTMDirtFace, Aug 15, 2017.

  1. KTMDirtFace

    KTMDirtFace Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure the % but a high percentage of models I grab from thingiverse are unprintable and non manifold, or have gaps or weird holes.

    Usually https://tools3d.azurewebsites.net/ fixes it up for me or meshmixer.

    But what are other people using that they don't see these issues when slicing? I ALWAYS find the issue in simplify3d.

    This model https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2457756, I just tried to print for someone at work has a hole in the switch logo...which when slicing caused the side parts to not be attached to the cup part .. other than that it looked ok when slicing. I opened it in mesh mixer and ran the inspector and it appears to have a hole somewhere in the switch logo on the front.

    I tried to print a storm trooper off thingiverse that had a gap in the layers half way through the chest...among other similar problems on many models.

    Just a rant, Im usually able to fix it but wtf? how are others not finding these problems.

    I almost always run my STL through that net fixer for the hell of it before uploading to thingiverse.

    Most of these models I find with these problems have pictures of printed ones, and other people that made them.. So whatever slicer they must use must ignore the problems? Simplify3d doesn't ignore them for me and I end up with messed up prints, or if I am lucky i notice it in the preview.
     
    #1 KTMDirtFace, Aug 15, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2017
  2. Kilrah

    Kilrah Well-Known Member

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    I rather think people just silently run them in an stl fixer and don't bother mentioning it becasue it's usually a lost cause anyway.
     
  3. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    @KTMDirtFace Too many people with little to no CAD skills or design experience uploading models without checking them first. Then we download it and can't do shit with them. Eventually instead of fixing the issues, we end up redoing the models. I hate that Thingiverse doesn't force the contributor to upload the actual CAD file so that we can modify it (or fix it if needed) as desired. Once I realized that only uploading an STL is not really sufficient to meet the CC license I tried to include at least a STP and/or IGES file along with the STL. I have had very little success in asking the contributors to include or add the CAD file to their contributions. I then usually have to remake the model and I will upload it myself including the CAD file with no attribution to the original author since I have to recreate it from scratch.

    By the way, that model is manifold but has other issues with self-intersecting triangles all along the edge of the logo. Reminded me that Fusion 360 is so much better than some of the other crap software used to make 3D models.
     
  4. Kilrah

    Kilrah Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, a non-manifold STL is the least of your worries, I've been much more frustrated many times by stuff that was poorly designed and/or just not fit for the intended purpose for various reasons that you spend more time fixing than you'd have needed to design from scratch.

    The main reason for people not posting source is the poor cross-compatibility of modifiable files between 3D design software, it's highly unlikely the person on the other side will have the proper software to do anything with it anyway. And by extension the fact that a lot of makers use "improperly licensed" design software, which they would rather not make obvious by posting source files made with said software.
     
  5. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    @Kilrah That is just excusing people for not being smart enough to properly design a model. Unlicensed software is really a non-issue as there are so many good free ones available, whether full versions or feature limited ones. Cross-compatibility is generally a non-issue as there are almost always functions to export your models.

    As an example, Autodesk had three free products, one is now defunct (123Design). Fusion 360 will accept many formats as importable, and export to many formats also. SketchUp has a free version. OpenSCAD for the mathematically inclined. FreeCAD is another free option. Tinkercad is free also. Not to mention nearly as many Mac version of software.

    Almost all will either export to a transportable format such as STP or IGES. Many can import those formats directly, while some can import other software's native versions. It is either laziness or the thought that this is my file and I don't want to give it up that motivates many to not include them. When I see a model I would really like to print (not very often since I can usually recreate it just as easily) I generally ask if the author is willing to include the CAD file. You can only imagine the number of times that request is met with responses such as; 'that file was so long ago I don't have the source anymore', or 'sorry but those I keep to myself', or 'I don't know how to do that', the last one always cracks me up. Can use the software but doesn't understand how to use the File >> Save command.

    Very few people that download from file repositories actually check to see what software it was created with. Many contributors don't even add that information to begin with. No one cares if the software is licensed or not when what they want to do is use the model to print something.
     
  6. Kilrah

    Kilrah Well-Known Member

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    Tried all of them and none "clicks" with me. F360 is nice, I'm trying to love it, but there are some quirky concepts and every time I try to use it I get stuck on something that I can't overcome in a reasonable time and switch back to my other package where I can restart from scratch in less time.

    Yup and they're typically just as useless. I've tried several times to export my files as these formats and reopen them - then concluded it wasn't even worth posting since anything you might want to change can't be done easily. Typically the pinion I made the other day. 2 circles, extrude, a sketch for the tooth, extruded cut, circular pattern 13x and done.
    Export that to the formats above, reimport, recognise features (tried 2 different software) you either get completely unlinked objects you can't do anything with, or some recognition of the extrudes but with 13 different sketch/extrudes, no recogntion of the circular pattern - which the whole design is based on. Already then you're better off just doing it from scratch, and the more complex the model the more pointless it becomes.

    No, but the creator of the file may not want to show himself as using a "small volume" cracked software suite worth thousands/year.
     
  7. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Typically it is very hard to learn something new if you do not immerse yourself in it, if you always rely on your goto software package as a crutch it will take a very long time for you to move on. Just saying.
    This has not been my experience with Fusion 360 or FreeCAD for that matter, those being the two I am most familiar with.
    Are you speaking from some personal experience :D:eek:
     
  8. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    We are trying to do some love on 360 as well (because the CAM tools) but still love SolidWorks better.
    I am not willing to add on the CAM stuff, yet to SW :) We will love/hate 360 a bit more first.
     
  9. Ryan TeGantvoort

    Ryan TeGantvoort Active Member

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    Yep I thoroughly enjoy SolidWorks! @mark tomlinson if you are looking for a good CAM Add-In for SolidWorks I am currently using the Free version of HSMWorks. You only get 2D toolpaths with the Free Version, HSMXpress, though. SolidCAM is ridiculously expensive but probably worth it if you do a TON of machining.

    Another "Free" or Limited CAD is OnShape, which was actually developed by a person who worked at SolidWorks. So it is very similar, but not near as efficient. Also a few versions behind SolidWorks in aspect to new features, but I haven't used it for awhile now. I did dabble in it for a bit thinking we could convert to it , so we had an online CAD and Storage. (as long as I have something to say about it, that will never happen) I believe they have a Pro Version or whatever they call it you can pay for but you don't get anything great when compared to Free version. Plus it costs close to a subscription of SolidWorks. No brainer in my mind.
     
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  10. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    ATM no, but my son is trying to scale up so ... no TON yet :)
    We need 3D toolpaths (sadly) but we may move that way long-term though. At some point you need to just get good software (and I am not against that). We already have a decent investment in SW ...
     
    #10 mark tomlinson, Aug 16, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017
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  11. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    I understand the love of Solidworks, They seem to have managed to get entrenched in the manufacturing vertical. But the cost to a hobbyist like myself is a huge barrier to entry. I am finding more and more things I can do with Fusion 360 and they seem to be adding features every month, this last update added the ability to work with folded sheet metal and close integration with Eagle.
     
  12. Ryan TeGantvoort

    Ryan TeGantvoort Active Member

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    I agree with this, I don't think for my personal home use I would be able to consider SolidWorks. I would definitely look at free software such as Fusion360 or any of the others. What is Eagle?
     
  13. Ryan TeGantvoort

    Ryan TeGantvoort Active Member

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    @mark tomlinson just so you know the investment for SolidCAM far exceeds the investment for SolidWorks. It is insanely priced, when I looked into.

    I understand the need for 3D toolpaths, as I wish I was able to use them in HSMXpress. They would drastically cut back on my machining time as well as the time it takes to create the toolpaths. That said, you can accomplish a lot with 2D toolpaths! ;)
     
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  14. Ryan TeGantvoort

    Ryan TeGantvoort Active Member

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    To get back on topic, I absolutely despise people that post things on thingiverse without the source files. Even if they would post their native files, with most people using free software, you can just download the software, open the file, and export to your needs. I have done this multiple times with OpenSCAD and now I decided to just leave it installed. Kind of a cool software, I have only been editing files, have not created anything myself with it. That's actually a bad example now that I think of it, because of the lack of exporting.
     
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  15. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    True, the printer is just a set of 2D toolpaths eh? :)
    Since we have it we might was well try the free one.
     
  16. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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  17. Ryan TeGantvoort

    Ryan TeGantvoort Active Member

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    No hurt in trying it! You can get a Free Trial of HSMWorks for 30 days I believe as well. They have great support if you have the paid version! Free version you don't get much, besides "getting started" issues. I tried a few of the other Add-Ins as well but preferred HSMXpress. I was also keen on having CAM within SolidWorks and not a standalone program. Just take a look at the Gold Partners for SolidWorks Add-Ins.
     
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  18. Kilrah

    Kilrah Well-Known Member

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    One thing I'm slightly wary of with F360 is the way it's all cloud-based, and Autodesk seems to be the king for screwing you up when you least expect it. The CURRENT F360 model (free for hobbyists, and yearly rates that would even still be affordable even without it and should you need to do a little bit of work) is great, but no one else has such a record of completely changing pricing model or downright discontinuing tools in a pinch. Maybe in 2 years it'll switch to $5k a year jsut to reopen your files.
     
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  19. KTMDirtFace

    KTMDirtFace Well-Known Member

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    Lol I don't mind.

    And I have always been able to use .stp files if people give them out to make small modifications. If they use a mesh modeling tool thats another story and those suck just as bad if not worse than the STL itself. ( Had an artist at work that wanted me to print him a box for holding some sprinkler thing. ) He made the file in ZBrush it was over 2 million poly's for a box!.. the file was huge lol. I managed to print it but I should have just made it in fusion.
     
  20. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Yes it can go down at the least convenient time, but it does keep a local cache of the most recent files locally, You can also Export your files in their native format to your local drive.
    Obviously that is entirely possible, but they won't do it without warning, It won't be like one day I have access to my repository and the next everything is gone. I started with 123Design, and they dumped that product, but in the end it was a good thing. They already had Tinkercad in their portfolio and there is no real need for two entry level CAD products from the same company. They Still have AutoCAD and I am on year three of using Fusion 360. If they decide to discontinue it I'll move on then.
     

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