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Woodfill impressions, oozing issue.

Discussion in 'Printing Filament' started by TylerJones4292, Jul 10, 2014.

  1. TylerJones4292

    TylerJones4292 New Member

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    Hi everyone, I've been trying some colorFabb Woodfill Fine filament that just arrived today from Printed Solid. It's really cool, but I've noticed a few things about it so far.

    First is that the heated filament really wants to escape the nozzle, leading to more oozing than I've experienced with normal PLA. Since so much comes out when heating up initially I get a noticeable amount of dry extrusion at the beginning of the print, but this is usually solved during the skirt printing.

    When doing a bridge test I noticed blobs forming at the point where the nozzle traveled between points before even getting to the bridge.
    [​IMG]

    It's pretty droopy when it comes out, and the slow bridge speeds that worked for me in PLA don't work in woodfill. Fortunately, that means faster bridges are possible :D

    I've been printing at 200C and having good adhesion to my non-heated bed.

    Hot woodfill also makes my whole apartment smell like a woodshop. My dad is a woodworker so that's pretty nostalgic for me. If you for some reason hate the smell of woodsmoke then maybe woodfill isn't for you.
     
    #1 TylerJones4292, Jul 10, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2014
  2. tesseract

    tesseract Moderator
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    I noticed that as well smells like freshly cut wood which I love

    to get rid of oozing in between prints I use a bit of code in my start up the moves the axis up about 15mm does a real extrude of material of about 20-30mm and as it is doing this extrude I place my tweezers so each arm is on one side of the nozzle tip. When the extrusion stops the regular printing begins so the printer starts to move to do the skirt and at that moment I pinch the tweezers closed and actually allow it to scrape across the nozzle tip cleaning it. The print continues with a fialment that is just primed for printing so result are much more accurate no waiting for filament to flow normally. This process will eliminate the oozing that occurs between prints as well.

    It is very successful for me I have been using it ever since I started playing with gcode

    the code I use is placed at the end of the existing startup code and looks like this:

    G1 Z0.00 F5000; move to z endstop
    G1 Z15.0 F5000 ; raise nozzle 15mm
    G92 E0 ; zero extruded length
    G1 F200 E25 ; extrude 25mm
    G92 E0 ; zero extruded length again

    as I said I add this so it is the last bit of code right before the print itself starts
     
  3. tesseract

    tesseract Moderator
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    The only things I know of that can affect bridges are:
    Bridge printing speed -- I would think faster is better
    Filament temp -- I would think cooler is better
    and bridge flow ratio; a param in Repetier I set mine at .9 , or 90%of normal
     
  4. TylerJones4292

    TylerJones4292 New Member

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    Thanks, I'm definitely going to try those. I haven't messed with bridge flow ratio before but it was set to 1, and that looks like too much from the prints I've done so far.

    Any idea how to fix the blobs between the pillars?
     
  5. Printed Solid

    Printed Solid Volunteer Admin
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    Hi Tyler,

    Please tag me on posts like this so I don't miss them.

    Woodfill can be a tricky beast. My suggestions would be to turn down the temp. 190 should be good. You'll also need to dial in retraction. Probably a little faster retraction speed, but it may not be that much of an issue when you reduce temp. One more thing to consider might be a faster non-print move.

    I can't tell from the pic, but make sure you're printing at pretty thick layers. 0.2 should be about the thinnest you go with a 0.4mm nozzle. You can go thinner with a larger diameter nozzle.

    There are some tips here: http://learn.colorfabb.com/how-to-print-with-woodfill/
    Follow the makerbot replicator 2 tips. That is much closer to the robo than the Ultimaker is although both are quite different.
     
  6. TylerJones4292

    TylerJones4292 New Member

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    Thanks! I didn't even realize you could tag people in this forum. Is it just @Printed Solid? Yeah, I'll do that in the future.

    The Barnacules video mentioned that you shouldn't print above around 50mm/s, but if your guide says 50-80 is okay then I'll try that.

    I've been using .2mm layer height, but I'm going to try the printing setup in the link you provided next.
     
  7. Printed Solid

    Printed Solid Volunteer Admin
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    The tagging is brand new.

    Yes, the barnacules video is a little old. Colorfabb has learned more since then. I actually routinely print it a heck of a lot faster than they recommend, but the temp settings are more important to get right for this than any other material.

    When I say increase speed, I mean for non-print moves. Stick with their guidance for print speed until you get it nailed down a little.

    Woodfill definitely has its challenges, but once you get it nailed down, I think you will find it to be one of your favorite materials. It's definitely one of mine!
     
  8. TylerJones4292

    TylerJones4292 New Member

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    Yeah @Printed Solid, I'm getting that feeling. woodFill is really cool! Some musical instruments are gonna be popping off my printer soon, if all goes well.
     
  9. TylerJones4292

    TylerJones4292 New Member

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    Okay, I have bridges looking much better now, and the goop appearing where the nozzle arrives at each post is reduced to almost none. Still there, but not a big problem.

    On the other hand, overhangs aren't looking so hot. Print based on this model: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4360
    [​IMG]

    EDIT: forgot to mention, but it's worth saying this stuff really gets all over the nozzle during printing.
     
    #9 TylerJones4292, Jul 10, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2014
  10. TylerJones4292

    TylerJones4292 New Member

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    All is not well in woodFill land! During a print today I got a clog while I wasn't looking and now my nozzle it completely jammed. I can't even manually push the filament through when it's heated. Help! Has anyone had these or know how to fix a nozzle full of woodFill goop?

    tagging: @Printed Solid
     
  11. Printed Solid

    Printed Solid Volunteer Admin
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    It looks like you need to go cooler still or to get a little more agressive with your cooling, although I have to say that bridging and overhangs are usually one of the really strong points of woodfill so I'm a little surprised.

    What hot end are you running with? A 0.4mm is the min you can run with, but you really need to be careful with settings. If the material sits for too long in the nozzle or is too hot then it clogs really easily. This becomes much less of an issue with larger nozzle diameters. I use a 0.8mm on my ultimaker and can print at 100 micron reliably.

    For cleanout, you should be OK following the standard cleaning processes. Get a piece of guitar string, push it up through the nozzle end while it's hot, then flush it through with some good clean PLA.

    You generally want to avoid having the wood sit in the nozzle when possible. Purge with PLA after prints. Don't let the nozzle sit warm for more than a few seconds before starting your prints.
     
    2 people like this.
  12. TylerJones4292

    TylerJones4292 New Member

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    @Printed Solid
    I'm using an e3D v5. The clog happened during a print while I wasn't watching, but it should have been moving filament through like normal. No reason why it would have had a chance to accumulate/sit for too long that I know of. I'll try a slightly lower temperature after cleaning the nozzle.

    I've heeded everyone's warnings about leaving the nozzle heated, and always heat up only when the print is ready and cooldown immediately after.
     
  13. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    What diameter nozzle is on the E3D?
    (I think the default was 0.4 but I know I ordered some larger and smaller)

    Good information @Printed Solid -- I'll bump mine to at least the 0.6 when using that.
     
  14. TylerJones4292

    TylerJones4292 New Member

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  15. Printed Solid

    Printed Solid Volunteer Admin
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    I have a lot of nozzles in stock if you want to give a larger diameter nozzle a try.
    You definitely can print this stuff with a 0.4mm nozzle and many do, but you've really got to get settings dialed in perfectly.
    I have 0.4mm and 0.6mm V5 nozzles and V6 nozzles (which are compatible with the V5) all the way up to 0.8mm.

    I really should write a blog post about big nozzles. There are some huge advantages as long as you don't mind the loss in x-y resolution. Faster build times and stronger prints. It's also really hard to clog a nozzle that big so it's super easy for beginners to use.

    In the future, I plan on also including a few sticks of nozzle cleanout filament with every order, but I haven't been able to get any in stock yet.
     
  16. TylerJones4292

    TylerJones4292 New Member

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    @Printed Solid The V6 nozzles sound like a big improvement. I'll probably replace my current one soon with a V6 0.4, and grab either a 0.6 or 0.8 (or both) while I'm at it, and probably one of those PLA/PHA sample packs as well.
     
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  17. TylerJones4292

    TylerJones4292 New Member

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    @Printed Solid I cleaned out the nozzle with some guitar string, and it really took a lot of doing. Something from the last woodFill clog really got itself worked in there. It's out now but I'm going to hold off on using woodFill again until I get a bigger nozzle. If you have a writeup planned on bigger nozzles I'd be all ears!
     
  18. Printed Solid

    Printed Solid Volunteer Admin
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    When I say I should do a writeup on larger nozzles, I actually mean, 'it's on the list of things I'd like to do, but will never find the time to actually do.'

    :)
     
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  19. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    That's my favorite list. I just look at it and think how nice it'll be to have those finished never.
     
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  20. Printed Solid

    Printed Solid Volunteer Admin
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    Damnit! I'm going to go knock something off the list. Bowden tube stuffed with short lengths of different types of filament, here I come!
     

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