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Bubbly boat issue

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Momenslythe, Aug 31, 2017.

  1. Momenslythe

    Momenslythe Member

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    I'm having trouble with this bubbliness on my ABS print. I used the Low Quality setting for this one and am printing one with the High Quality setting now. You'll notice the bottom does curve up a little bit probably due to poor bed adhesion. I cannot get the slicer to make a skirt (it always makes a brim instead) so I'm printing without bed adhesion.

    Printer: R2
    Filament: Blue ABS
    Bed Temp: 80C (This is in the settings but I remember the printer going to 100C)
    Bed makeup: C2 replacement sheets
    Slicer: Cura for Robo
    Profile: Low Quality, Low Infill, no bed adhesion


    bubbleboat.PNG
     
  2. Kilrah

    Kilrah Well-Known Member

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    I'd say there's a little overextrusion that doesn't help, but it was probably mainly caused by the lifting bottom which caused these layers to be squished -> material escapes out due to the pressure.
     
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  3. Momenslythe

    Momenslythe Member

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    That may have been the case. The one I printed on the High Quality setting had better bed adhesion and wasn't as bubbly. It is however very rough and has strange line artifacts and "waves" which do not seem normal.

    rough boat.PNG
     
  4. sgomes

    sgomes Active Member

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    Those waves look like ringing. Try printing the outer perimeter at a slower speed, or reduce the acceleration instead (not sure how to do that in Cura).
     
  5. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    looks to me like overspeed, over retraction or not enough and temp isn't dialed in. Deprime test prints much faster than a benchy and will show same end results :D

    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:66175
     
    #5 Geof, Sep 8, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 8, 2017
    Momenslythe and WheresWaldo like this.
  6. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    I have a box full of Deprime, I only have one Benchy. :D
     
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  7. Momenslythe

    Momenslythe Member

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    Thanks, I will try the Deprime.

    I've been trying to sort out my bed adhesion issues before figuring out these other print quality ones. I used this Wolfbite stuff from Airwolf3D but I'll try it with the Deprime next. I'll probably also change filaments to something easier to see. I ran out of blue and this clear filament is very had to see.

    benchy.PNG
     
  8. Momenslythe

    Momenslythe Member

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    I don't see the same results in benchy and deprime. My deprime tests look much better at the HQ than my bency does. I was only able to get decent pictures of the LQ deprime. I'll take some better ones of the other quality settings. There's a notch on the bottom of one of the corners from me trying to get a wedge to remove it from the bed.

    deprime_LQ_1.PNG deprime_LQ_2.PNG deprime_LQ_3.PNG deprime_LQ_4.PNG
     
  9. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    doesn't look terrible but not great for high quality. You may want to check your temperature and make sure your extruder is calibrated correctly.
     
  10. Momenslythe

    Momenslythe Member

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    Oh sorry these pictures are all low quality prints. I had a hard time taking good ones of the high quality so I'm trying to figure that out before posting those.

    I calibrated the extrusion steps/mm. Are there other calibrations I should do?
     
  11. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Nope after thar its all print settings. What part are you not liking on the deprime ?
     
  12. Momenslythe

    Momenslythe Member

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    Sorry this took me so long to reply. I don't have a problem with the Low Quality Deprime print but whenever I print something bigger than the Deprime, I get issues. I also have ringing in the Deprime prints at NQ and HQ that is hard to photograph but easy for me to see.

    For instance it is much easier to see problems on this HQ 3Dbenchy than it is to see in the deprime I had to take pictures of with a digital microscope.

    boat HQ 1 notes.png snip1.PNG snip2.PNG snip3.PNG snip4.PNG snip5.PNG
     
  13. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Speed on the deprime and ringing seems to be common on the R2 units right now. Can you remind me what materiL and bed heat your using ? First layers look very hot or squished
     
  14. Momenslythe

    Momenslythe Member

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    I'm using ABS and bed heat of 80C
     
  15. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Whats the hotend temp for the first layers and are you turning on your cooling fans at all?
     
  16. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    The diagonal lines are the infill showing through, add perimeters, the waves are ringing that are a know issue on the r2-no fix yet, the rough may actually be foxed by the perimeter addition :) ignore my other questions lol

    Deprime arrow looks like retract marks maybe
     
  17. Momenslythe

    Momenslythe Member

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    OK I will try the perimeter addition. Is that adding wall thickness or is that something else?
     
  18. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Okay lets reset here, first with expectations. putting plastic a layer at a time will never give you a perfectly smooth finish. If you are trying to compare this Benchy to, let's say a Lego Brick, stop right now! You will never be happy, even printers that cost several hundreds of thousands of dollars, when examined under a magnifying glass will show you flaws.

    Now let's address these issues one at a time.

    Rough - could be a number of things, might also contribute to the wavy which will be addressed next. Some extrusion settings could be at play here and maybe a bit hotter can make ABS flow better, but may increase stringing. Its all about compromises with consumer 3D printers. Can be mitigated through slicer settings.

    Wavy - that can be mitigated by lowing the acceleration values. the ringing is a direct result of trying to instantly accelerate a direction change to its maximum speed. The Marlin developers intentionally left all these parameters high so that it would force people to tune them appropriately. Robo did that and lowered it to a level they felt was acceptable. If you don't think it is acceptable you can lower the acceleration values even more. Can be corrected and saved with specific g-codes.

    Diagonal Lines - I will be honest, I can only guess what is happening here, but my guess is that this model was sliced so that each new layer started as close to where the last layer ended. That is usually a slicer setting, but like I said that is a guess. Also if you are ever so slightly over-extruding the start/end point of the perimeter might have a bit more extrude. Or it could be that retraction was turned off. Retraction helps with oozing at the beginning or end of a line since it relieves back pressure. All a guess. Can be mitigated with Slicer settings.

    Mark - At this close it looks like a bit of over-extrusion however minimal. It could contribute to the mark, or it might be that after the layer was done the nozzle dragged across the previous layer and disturbed the finish. again a slicer setting for lift at retraction or layer end, sometimes called Z-Axis hop.

    So, you need to ask your self, are you looking for perfect or just good enough? That will tell you is you can live with tweaking the settings or using it as its. (Please note that I used the word perfect to make a point, it will never be perfect.)
     
    #18 WheresWaldo, Sep 19, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2017
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  19. Momenslythe

    Momenslythe Member

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    I'm not comparing to a Lego brick. I'm comparing to what I get from my C2 printing. My more expensive machine should not have a worse finish. I will take a look at tweaking the settings you suggested.
     
  20. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Well, the larger you go on printers the rougher the details can get :) *
    I would go through the settings as @WheresWaldo suggested. A lot of what you are seeing can be tweaked in the slicer (simply trying a different slicer can give you a new perspective)



    *my C2 outdoes the R1 series all day long, but largely because it is a much smaller print mechanism and so much less slop** to handle. A large printer means more **drive lash. Simple as that (center distance and run-out are way more on the R2).
     
    #20 mark tomlinson, Sep 19, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017

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