1. Got a question or need help troubleshooting? Post to the troubleshooting forum or Search the forums!

Unresolved First layer Wavy

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Toro1966, Jul 29, 2016.

  1. Ryan TeGantvoort

    Ryan TeGantvoort Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    172
    Paper Leveling levels the X-Axis. Y-Axis will have to be shimmed. Z-Axis is always level in accordance to the X and Y axis.
     
    mark tomlinson likes this.
  2. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    23,917
    Likes Received:
    7,338
    Paper leveling will level the Z with respect to the X axis only.
    Auto bed leveling handles the rest, but if the Y is significantly out (like a magnet out of place) you will get better results fixing the obvious problems first.
     
    Ryan TeGantvoort likes this.
  3. Ryan TeGantvoort

    Ryan TeGantvoort Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    172
  4. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2016
    Messages:
    398
    Likes Received:
    78
    Ok - strange thing here. I was calibrating/checking the calibration of the extruder. It was way off so I calibrated it -or so I thought. In MC, it extrudes the correct amount of material. In S3D, it does not. Any ideas why that's the case? I have checked and the e value is the same in both, so in theory - it should extrude the same amount in both. Why would the software have an effect on it?
     
  5. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Messages:
    6,757
    Likes Received:
    2,339
    Calibrate your extruder. Use the jog controls in s3d

    (Measure 120mm extrude 100mm what's left over?)
     
  6. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2016
    Messages:
    398
    Likes Received:
    78
    Geof. That's my point. IN MC, when I extrude (100), I am pretty darn close (about 98.5-99). When I extrude (100) using jog controls in S3D, I am way off, about 78 or so. I have verified that the exact number is in both and have editied it in the firmware so I know it's there and verified it with M503 in S3D as well.

    So why should I have to recalibrate just because I use a different slicer?
     
  7. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Messages:
    6,757
    Likes Received:
    2,339
    Just for giggles open your code terminal, send a M502 then a M500. Does it change your measurements in s3d?
     
  8. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Messages:
    6,757
    Likes Received:
    2,339
    I don't think you should have to recalibrate due to slicer change but mc does some odd things and I wouldn't put it past them to play with extrusion multipliers and the such without the user knowing. The m codes I gave you will ensure the firmware numbers are what's being used.
     
  9. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2016
    Messages:
    398
    Likes Received:
    78
    I'll give that a try. What do those commands do? I looked them up and it says it reverts the values to those int he firmware but they already are set to the values in the firmware.
     
  10. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Messages:
    6,757
    Likes Received:
    2,339
    M502 clears EPROMs, M500 sets firmware controls. It's best when troubleshooting to get the eeprom out of the equation then we can figure out what's happening. I made a mistake once I had saved to eeprom...forgot .... Then wasted 2 days troubleshooting a problem lol
     
  11. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2016
    Messages:
    398
    Likes Received:
    78
    Geof - did as you suggest and I have confirmed that the proper e-step is in the firmware and is what simplify 3d is seeing. The problem I have is the MC extrudes way too much but is at least consistent. This actually makes sense to me as I have the e-steps set pretty high (1056). Simplify 3d is also consistent, but in a bad way. It is more than 20mm underextruding than MC is. I have measured both and right now in MC, I am overextruding by 20mm consistently, and in simplify 3d I am underextruding by about 2mm consistently. That means that between MC and S3D, the extruder(steps) are off by 22 mm.

    Why would changing the slicer make a difference in the extrusion rate given that the esteps for both are set the same. Also, 1056 seems very high to me given that it comes from the factory set to about 783. Thoughts?
     
  12. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Messages:
    6,757
    Likes Received:
    2,339
    I cant recall what mine are... something like 718(my robo cooy is like 870ish and my ditto is something rediculous lol ) My robo was pretty close from the factory when i calibrated. What is your extrusion multiplier in s3d? (1056 does seem high to me, but might be what your set up requires)

    My initial thought is matter control is just jacked and since you have s3d id totally forget about it. In my opinion matter control made to many decisions for you and locked you out of to much :).

    If you share some photos of your prints i can help you try to get s3d dialed in
     
  13. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2016
    Messages:
    398
    Likes Received:
    78
    Thanks Geof - I actually think my extruder is jacked up. I have been calibrating fro a long time now today and I thought it was consistent and I was just measuring sloppy, but I am not. I am using a caliper and one try it extrudes 98.5 out of 100 and the next time it extrudes 95 and the next time it might be 90. Also, when I watch the extrusion, it will be going nicely for a second piling up on the print bed and then it seems to slow down or even stop for a sec and then pick back up. The wheels, however, are turning. This leads me to believe one of three things is happening:
    1 - The nozzle is partially clogged. This is possible, but I don't think so, because the extruded filament is nice and straight and flows well.
    2 - The tension on the filament feeder bolt is insufficient and doesn't feed consistently because it is slipping. I think this is the most likely cause but don't know how to fix it or tighten the tension.
    3 - The bolt might be oily causing the slippage of filament. I seasoned the nozzle a day or two ago and it is possible that there is residual oil on the bolt. It does not look oily, nor does the filament coming out look or feel oily. That said, I am going to put a little rubbing alcohol on the bolt just to make sure.

    As I mentioned, I think it is number 2. Is there a link to how to adjust the tension? Could this be it, or do you think I am off base?
     
  14. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2016
    Messages:
    398
    Likes Received:
    78
    Here is a video of the extrusion. Is adjusting tension as simple as adjusting the two screws at the back with the springs?
    <iframe width="854" height="480" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  15. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Messages:
    6,757
    Likes Received:
    2,339
    Yes sir 2 springs on the hinge that press the filament against the hobbled bolt. I actually added 2 washers to each side now that i think about it
     
  16. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2016
    Messages:
    398
    Likes Received:
    78
    Thanks Geof. Does that seem like it may be my problem based on the symptoms and the video?
     
  17. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Messages:
    6,757
    Likes Received:
    2,339
    It very well.could be causing some issues

    Its possible your extruder stepper needs tuned and its missing steps but start easy first.
     
  18. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2016
    Messages:
    398
    Likes Received:
    78
    How do you tune the stepper?
     
  19. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Messages:
    6,757
    Likes Received:
    2,339
    You tune the stepper driver if its needed.
     
  20. Ryan TeGantvoort

    Ryan TeGantvoort Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    172
    After watching the video, it is definitely something to do with the Stepper Motor/Driver. You can literally watch the extrusion slow down during the video. It appears to happen roughly every 4 sec. I would try swapping 2 Drivers and see if the problem continues (or put a new one in if you have an extra).
     

Share This Page