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Unresolved Negative values on Z ehile printing

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by crazas, Aug 19, 2015.

  1. crazas

    crazas Member

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    is this normal??? I am getting negative values while printing a file been the bigger -0.91.
    The result is that the first layers are missed.
    Any idea about how to fix it?

    I already used rhe auto level feature of Simplify a coupke of times
     
  2. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    Is it causing print issues?
     
  3. crazas

    crazas Member

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    Yes, the extruder slides from side to side touching the bed so the first layers are missed, once it start getting to positive values the rest of the file prints ok
     

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  4. Frankn

    Frankn Member

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    Did you configure the auto level with the paper test setting?
    That Z setting is high enough that the nozzle shouldn't be dragging.
    Check the G start codes. Your have to check with others for this.
    Frank
     
  5. crazas

    crazas Member

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    yes I did the autolevel with the paper.
    About the G code, I have no clue about what to look for so I am pretty lost
     
  6. crazas

    crazas Member

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    Anyone?
     
  7. Frankn

    Frankn Member

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    OK, here you go: Select settings, then printer, then custom G-code.
    Now scroll down to M565
    This setting should be between Z-0 & Z-1.1 The setting depends on the Z stop switches in your printer.
    Run the test cube for 3 layers, then cancel it. check the bottom layer. It should be smooth and glazed if it is right, and the nozzle should not have dragged on top of the 3rd layer. The larger the Z#, the higher the nozzle travels.
    Caution only adjust app. .1 at a time. Hope this helps, Frank

    _Ospray claw 700.jpg
    When you have it set up right, test it out with one of these. LOL
     
    #7 Frankn, Aug 22, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2015
    crazas likes this.
  8. crazas

    crazas Member

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    Thanx.
    Will check as soons as I get home and post results
     
  9. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Just a clarification, so we can make sure that no misinformation is given. Z offset, set with M565 only affects layer 1. If you have issues with any layer other than layer 1, M565 won't help that and you have other issues. Once you are at layer 2 and above the only determining factor is the layer height you selected in your slicer.
     
  10. crazas

    crazas Member

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    Looks like it is working!!! Thank you very much!!!!
    I printed a couple pf small files and everything was fine, so I started an "almost lifesize" Terminator T800 and and, after 19 hours of printing this was the result.
    Any idea about what can cause this? (Nobody was home so I am sure nobody touched the printer)

    image.jpg image.jpg
     
  11. Frankn

    Frankn Member

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    Below the cheeks, it appears the problem is no support.
    Above the eyes, something shifted. Either the print moved or something slipped depending on how it was posed.
    19 hours? how much fill did you use? Frank
    Well Waldo, you might be right about it effecting only the first layer, but then again, I have eliminated nozzle dragging with this code above the 4th layer. Sometimes theory does not follow practice. A physicists at Westinghouse once told me this. Frank

    _DSC0003.jpg
     
  12. crazas

    crazas Member

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    Fill was 20 %. And, since there was no one home (and I have no cats, LOL) nobody touched/moved the printer.
    Going to try to print an smaller version to check if the file is corrupt
     
  13. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    That is a belt slip almost certainly.
     
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  14. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Annecdotal and a coincidence, zprobe_offset does not affect anything other than the first layer, not theory but math. Even the smartest people in the world try to find order where there is none, so sometimes we make up answers that fit our circumstances. One day I'll tell you my story about citations from SIMU.
     
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  15. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Yep. That is how the firmware works.

    What people still don't 'get' I feel is just how important that first layer is to the rest of the print working correctly.
    If that first layer is crap then at best you are going to get a half-baked print.
     
  16. Frankn

    Frankn Member

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    I assumed that since Z offset, in effect, sets the basis of the height for the first layer, that basis is carried on on further layers. If not what sets that basis for the following layers. They have to start from something!
    It's sounds like you are trying to tell me that the 2nd layer starts at the same height no matter how high or low the first layer is. I can see a gap in this logic. Frank
     
  17. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    It is all relative to the first layer, but I think what @WheresWaldo is telling you is that in the firmware... mathematically.. the zprobe_offset is not applied after the first layer.


    I believe that would be the case, but have not really verified it. There is a bit of disagreement in the Marlin development folks about how this should all be done. (OK, it was a dog pile earlier, but I think they have more or less agreed on how to approach it).

    Some of this is due to the way the Robo does things. The extruder IS the Z probe...

    Layer 2 is always relative to layer 1 (and so forth) all layer moves are essentially relative.
     
    #17 mark tomlinson, Aug 24, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2015
  18. Frankn

    Frankn Member

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    I understand that the Z offset is actually the actuation/deactuation time difference induced by the Z switches and that this factor is only applied once to the first layer. The following layer heights are defined as you have selected, but there starting point is always on the first layer and the thickness of this first layer has a certain effect on the 'sink rate' of the second layer. The following layers should be close to identical. Hay you guys know the code numbers, But I usually look at the 'mechanical' reaction that is taking place do to those code numbers. Just 2 different points of view I guess.Frank
    PS: Hay! I looked at the full G code listing. That is a lot of numbers. And I use to have fun with the truth tables in early IC design projects.
     
  19. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Look, I am only going to say this one more time. zprobe_offset adjusts only the first layer. In carpenter terms it's like telling someone to burn an inch on the tape measure, but this time we are "burning" the offset. Then if you selected for example 0.2 mm layer height, layer two would be exactly 0.2 mm from layer one, layer 10 would be exactly 2 mm above layer one. There is no more offset, there is no more effect once you have used the offset to correct layer one. The offset corrects the zero position of the first layer, you can look at gcode until you are blue in the face and it won't show any other adjustments.

    If you see any different, then it was something else that did it NOT zprobe_offset! There is no "sink" rate. And if you want my attention use the word HEY, as hay is for animals.
     
  20. Frankn

    Frankn Member

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    I will let you go now Waldo. You just hit overtime. LOL Frank

    white claw black.jpg
     

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