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Promethius System- Dual extrusion, single nozzle

Discussion in 'Mods and Upgrades' started by Geof, Mar 30, 2017.

  1. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Hey All,
    @RP Iron Man (Eric) was kind enough to get me a promethius system to attach to my robo! So here we go! I'm not going to waste the time to detail assembly or how to, Eric has done an outstanding job on his site for this, no reason to reinvent the wheel :D

    https://www.distechautomation.com/products/prometheus-system

    Here is how I have decided to attach the motors. Should hold up fine and no drilling required (so can go back stock at any point)
    20170330_105748.jpg
    20170330_110801.jpg 20170330_110803.jpg 20170330_110807.jpg 20170330_110811.jpg

    Normally I think dual extrusion on our robos is a waste because of the loss in X space. With the single nozzle design this doesn't exist. at some point I'll design up a small x carriage and actually GAIN X axis space since the promethius system is dual bowden and a single nozzle. No need for the massive x carraige we have now.

    I will continue to update with pictures of how I ran the wiring and of the prints I get off the machine once I get it all figured out!
     
  2. daniel871

    daniel871 Well-Known Member

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    One flaw right off the bat - The tubing between your stepper motors and the X-axis carriage have nowhere to go when you print taller objects.
     
  3. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    to be determined :D will likely not cause an issue (expecially not for me since anything over 6 to 7 inches is done on an appropriately sized machine for the job ;) ) I think the bowdens will move out the way BUT! If it doesn't and you are correct there will be a revision :D

    currently the main plain is to keep the bowdens as short as possible for obvious reasons and mount the system without drilling the case or heavily modifiying anything. I always perfer the idea of putting it back to stock where possible. (I know why! I dont know lol. I just am wierd like that)
     
  4. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Ok so I have everything mounted up, firmware modified and flashed (Mesh leveling). The extruders both move correctly independently, the hotend gets to temp. Autohome works fine. Will run the auto level process, go get some good tape to secure the extruder wiring down the case and try to print single color, then dual color (I imagine a struggle on that last one). Still working on the slicer set up but its outlined very well by @RP Iron Man on his website. https://www.distechautomation.com/pages/documentation

    as far as the concern regarding the Z Height, I limit my machine to 200 mm z height, the promethius system and bowdens are not causing an issue at that height mechanically. I will test a print at some point after this system is up and working to verify (maybe). But 200mm Z height is more than enough for my applications with the robo. Robo wiring.jpg
     
  5. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Excellent work sir.

    Easier than dual nozzle since then you have to work at making sure the two hotends are Z aligned exactly right :)
     
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  6. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    If it works as expected on the robo this will be just insane. So excited to get it printing!
     
  7. daniel871

    daniel871 Well-Known Member

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    If it somehow avoids the bowden feeding issues on long prints that I ran into (that had to be solved by putting longer tubes in place so as to increase the radius on any bends in the tube as the X-axis moved around and approached 100mm in height), then I'll be surprised.

    EDIT: This was during the very short-lived dual-extruding Robo setup I had before the manufacturing flaws in the acrylic/plastic finished expanding/shattering that black foundation plate in the first Robo printer I had--long after replacing all of the electronics and the original warranty being worthless because they charged for parts that failed.
     
  8. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Pics :)

    That Y adapter for the filament feed is similar to what SeeMeCNC did for their dual-filament feed and you can print those off of thingiverse. Only thing I want to see is how well the filament change works since that looks like it would need a boatload of retraction. I know it works since the Delta ones do it, but interesting to see what is involved.
     
  9. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Yea with Bowden you need to go short and straight (like the C2 does) or long and less curvy.
    Even then (like our delta showed) you can end up with too much backpressure for some hotends.
    The E3D and Prometheus should be fine in that type of setup.
     
  10. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    yea these bowden tubes are short short. Just long enough (JUST) to reach the far extremes of Z0 and X extremes. Worst case I extend them...but shorter is better when bowden.

    I'll be sure to take good pictures. The retraction scripts can be found on the documentation under first print. Its intense lol.
     
  11. daniel871

    daniel871 Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to know what printer that is on the left-hand side of the Robo.
     
  12. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Unless you are doing significant color changes in a print it should not be a huge issue
     
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  13. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    thats the kickstarter 4 extruder (copy mode) Stacker 500S. (Updated to the new version, about to be upgraded some more lol)
     
  14. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    lol he says you can do thousands of tool changes and cause no issue so I'm gonna try!
     
  15. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I just meant print-time wise it would not be a significant add.
    Sure, given the construction I see no issues with lots of changes mechanically.
     
  16. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    yea I've heard people are printing faster than Sigmas and UM3s because of the snappy fast retraction and not having the "park" sequence
     
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  17. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    OK! Update time! First dual color print is successful! I still need to tune the slicer. Unfortunantly at the moment S3D dual extrusion (known issue across multiple/all dual extruding printers) is not up to snuff so we use repetier host/cura engine (I'm not familiar with so learning as I go) but! IT WORKS! it printed this with a prime tower/their prime trail in 13 mins give or take. My sigma estimates 40 minutes. That is IMPRESSIVE.
     

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  18. regor

    regor Member

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    What did you use for the carriage mount for the hot end original or newly printed one? Would you mind sharing the mount for printing?
     
  19. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    I used a reprinted oem mount because i havent been able to find my spare parts box lol. Ill be sharing the modified promethius mount, firmare and profile once its dialed in. Still working on it
     
  20. regor

    regor Member

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