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Tiny print...

Discussion in 'Show and Tell' started by Kilrah, Aug 14, 2017.

  1. Kilrah

    Kilrah Well-Known Member

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    When I ordered my 0.4mm hardened nozzle I also put a 0.25mm one in the cart because why not. Just found a purpose for it:

    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2483435

    Really didn't think that printing something that tiny/precise would ever work, but it did. Sure the gear teeth aren't as sharp (pun not intended :D) as the original, but it runs perfectly smoothly anyway.

    On another note it's interestintg S3D seems to have some issues with tiny objects. Had to "cheat" and make the part bigger because it would "cut corners" for no apparent reason. Might send them something about it if I find time.

    I wouldn't have expected extrusion to be that precise with such tiny flows on a direct extruder. The "ugly" line about 1/3rd from the bottom is my fault for trying a slightly higher temp while printing and backing off when it obviously showed it was a stupid thing to do. That was PLA at 180°.

    20170814_201821.jpg 20170814_200929.jpg 20170814_200955.jpg
     
    #1 Kilrah, Aug 14, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2017
  2. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    You might want to check the wall thickness versus the extrusion width :) Sometimes with tiny stuff that can lead to issues.
    However doing that sort of work is more likely to drum up a slicer bug if there is one.

    The results look excellent though.
     
  3. Kilrah

    Kilrah Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the hint, seems that "auto" extrusion width is the issue indeed, if I force smaller (0.2) it now looks correct on the preview. Comparison below, auto first where it's obvious a bit is missing.
    I'll try and print just to see if the tips are pointy as they should, won't take the whole thing apart or tweak the source files to replace the working first try.

    auto.jpg

    Clipboard01.jpg
     
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  4. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    This is one of the reasons to consider a smaller nozzle if you do a lot of high detail prints. You can reduce the extrusion width a lot more (and with better definition).

    @tesseract did some of the most impressive tests for resolution on the old beta back when I first had joined.

    It is hard to search the forum and he is not very active these days :)

    http://community.robo3d.com/index.php?threads/how-to-get-better-resolution-below-300-micron.1324/

    This thread is pretty good too:

    http://community.robo3d.com/index.php?threads/what-happens-below-1.4332/

    And the R2 has at least as much resolution as the R1 series and honestly SHOULD be better since it is gantry style (and more rigid).
     
    #4 mark tomlinson, Aug 14, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2017
  5. sgomes

    sgomes Active Member

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    I've found the R2 quite vulnerable to vibrations, actually. My base printing speed is 50mm/s and I've had to knock down the perimeter speed to 20% in order to avoid ringing artifacts (e.g., waves around the hull openings on a benchy). No idea if this is an issue with my particular unit or R2s in general.
     
  6. Kilrah

    Kilrah Well-Known Member

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    I do have a bit of ringing with speed as well. Have tried starting to tune accelerations a bit but didn't get much success nor consistent results so far, must be doing it wrong.

    Also there are a few strange things, like I printed 4 sets of tiny things last night and everything was perfect, and this morning I turn the printer on, start a file, and suddenly Z offset is completely off and I'm printing in the bed (probably by as much as 0.2-0.3mm), had to spend 20 mins retuning to get the same result as last night... o_O
     
  7. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    @Kilrah, I don't want to look at the Marlin source right now, but my guess is that acceleration values are at the Marlin default settings. Try lowering them substantially not incrementally. Somewhere around the 500 - 800 range and that should mitigate some of the ringing.

    So I just checked and the max acceleration is set to 3000 and the default is 1000. Personally I would halve the max and make the default around 600.
     
  8. sgomes

    sgomes Active Member

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    This really feels like something that should have been optimised by Robo before sending out the machines. I know it's easy for them to change the defaults with firmware updates, but first impressions matter, and they should have had time to tune this stuff.
     
  9. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    @sgomes So far all I am seeing is that Robo is intent on modifying Marlin in ways that simply do nothing to increase reliability and print quality. Aside from the configuration options necessary to run the C2/R2 printers, there are quite a few edits removing code that simply are only compiled if certain options are set. I am not sure what their motivation is in what I would call unnecessarily complex edits.

    I saw this before when working in the software industry, many times when a programmer is also tasked with the software design specifications a lot of code is created just because. It might be 'low hanging fruit' it might be because they think they can do it better or they might just want to do it. One issue I have with all this code modification, not one single edit has been contributed back to the Marlin community. This is the whole point of OSS, if you have a better way of doing something then give back and let everyone benefit.
     
    #9 WheresWaldo, Aug 15, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2017
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  10. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Not.
    Software.
    People :)

    They assume the defaults are "good" (hint: they never have been)
     
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  11. sgomes

    sgomes Active Member

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    Sure, I get that, but it's just a few constants; it's not like they need to code new path logic... They could have done the exact same thing I'll probably be doing now: run a few prints, tweak the numbers in the EEPROM, repeat until results are good :-/
     
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  12. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Lol this is the 4th or 5th machine iteration they have put out. I dont think it will change any time soon.
     
  13. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I am sure they have run test prints and I am sure they were happy with them. Like much of software it is the edge conditions that bite you in the nether regions :) Their defaults are poor ...
     
  14. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    There are quite a few options you can change in Marlin, but it is not an unmanageable task. It can be overwhelming if you are not familiar with the schema used. But the first priority should always be configuration to get the best you can from the firmware as it exists. Then you modify what you need to improve, either the user experience, performance or quality. That is how I treated the R1 and all the Marlin versions starting with 1.1.0 through the current 1.1.4. That is how I treated the Marlin version I maintain for the cheap Chinese resin printer.
     
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  15. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    @mark tomlinson there can be a lot of difference in settings between 'it prints' and 'it prints well.' I think many manufacturers tend to tip the scale toward 'it prints'.
     
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  16. OutsourcedGuru

    OutsourcedGuru Active Member

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  17. Kilrah

    Kilrah Well-Known Member

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    I printed some but while they're a nice start they're unusable. The center hole is too small for anything, and it isn't known what pen would fit in there anyway.
    I modified it to enlarge the hole and tried cutting the cartridge of a standard pen, that nearly worked but the tip is too broad to work in the printer.

    Found some compatible pens and ordered that along with some paper, not worth the hassle to try dozens of pens and spill ink everywhere as many times.

    20170815_095622.jpg
     
  18. OutsourcedGuru

    OutsourcedGuru Active Member

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    Bummer. Thought that might work.

    Loving the brims. They look like they're working out.
     
  19. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    @Kilrah if you are using S3D try this setting
    upload_2017-8-15_19-18-27.png
    On the bottom left Horizontal size compensation, also on the Layers tab make sure your direction is Outside-In. Both those will help you maintain dimensional integrity.
     

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