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Unresolved Wall quality issues.

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Oisin, Feb 9, 2016.

  1. Oisin

    Oisin Member

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    Hi guys!

    After a few months of trying different things I still haven't been able to fix my wall issues. There is warping in the images attached but that was my fault for not printing with a brim. Every time I post I get asked whether or not I've calibrated the extruder so I'll clear that up now: No. The reason being that if I change the extruder value in the eeprom in any way from 723, the surface is either bubbly (overstuffed), or not complete. I performed the calculation from that 'Tom's guide' video and got a value of 840 or so. I tried it and it didn't make a difference apart from not forming surfaces properly. A Robo3D support technician also told me the number should be lower than 723, not higher.

    Other than trying to change the extruder value in the eeprom (sorry if my terminology is off), I've tried messing with temperatures, using an enclosure, using the heated bed at different temperatures, using different brands of filament.

    Not to be too negative, but the printer has cost me double its value in repairs and never worked right so I'm reluctant to try buying a new extruder or too many new parts if I can avoid it, but don't let that stop suggestions!

    Next step for me is to get a temperature gun and see that the extruder is *really* at the temperature the thermistor is telling me it's at.

    As you can see from the 'Surface Quality' image, the surface quality is pretty much perfect as far as I'm concerned.

    Any ideas as to how to fix the wall issues?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Trama

    Trama Member

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    What material are you using and what are your heat and speed settings

    They do look over stuffed but it is hard to tell, there can be a lot of variables at play when it comes to quality of the wall. As well as what your extruder multiplier is set at


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  3. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Good luck with a temp gun, the surface that is heated is so small that you are not likely to get anywhere close to good readings that way. A contact reading on the heater block is the only close to accurate way (which is why the thermistor is there).

    As for the extruder calibration properly done it is dead on -- it is just math. I have one that was higher than the 723 (by a good amount) and another that was lower. However it should not be wildly off from a practical standpoint, but if you are fine tuning you will need to do that before going too far.

    On to the topic of walls... the slicer can have a big effect on this as well so make sure you have experimented with various ones.

    All 3D printers in this price range that I have messed with are all susceptible to the same sort of issues (not surprising as they are all very similar). If absolute precision and detail are the key then FDM is not the answer (although it can be pretty darn good). SLA or DLP are the top-notch on detail and precision. (this is one reason why we went and built a DLP)
     
  4. Oisin

    Oisin Member

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    I'm using PLA at 195C but have tried in 5 degree increments from 185 to 235 C. Speed settings are 20mm/s but I have tried in increments of 5 from 10mm/s to 60mm/s. The extruder multiplier is not in the Cura plugin for Repetier, so I guess it's at 100%
     
  5. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Which slicers have you tried?
     
  6. Oisin

    Oisin Member

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    The temperature gun was just an idea, Mark...

    With regards to slicers, Cura is the only one that results in a print. For example, slic3r doesn't do infill for me at all. It does the stuff shown in the image below. The wall quality was no better either.

    I could try Kisslicer and Skeinforge but I've no idea how to work them. I'll give them a go.
     

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  7. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    If you send me a model with all the specifics of how exactly you want it sliced (Z offset, temperature, etc)
    I'll slice it for you with Simplify3D.

    All of what you mention are slicer specific issues (and largely why we abandoned the free ones).
     
  8. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Your specific issue here may or may not be a slicer specific issue, but you might as well exhaust that possibility.
     
  9. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Some of that in the pictures does rather look like an extrusion issue... what speeds are you using for the finer detail prints?
    I found that if I reduced resolution I had to slow down in pretty much a linear fashion or the results were not good.
     
  10. Oisin

    Oisin Member

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    I've attached the model to this post. It'd be nice to see what it looks like at 50 microns if you can slice it at that please. For all prints I print at 20mm/s.
     
  11. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Sorry, there is nothing attached here that I see.

    You can PM me the model if needed. (I think you will need to ZIP it before you can attached it)

    And I'll either need your Z offset or you will need to edit that in the generated GCode
     
    #11 mark tomlinson, Feb 9, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2016
  12. Oisin

    Oisin Member

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    I screwed up, sorry! Here it is. My z-offset is 1.1.
     

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  13. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    what temperature? 195?

    I really need everything,.
     
  14. Oisin

    Oisin Member

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    Yup, 195 is perfect. Thanks very much, Mark. I appreciate you helping me eliminate possible causes of what we can see in the images. I'll print it tonight and post pictures in the morning.
     
  15. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    It does not look like something very difficult to print (we have certainly printed more difficult ones),
    Good luck.
     
  16. Oisin

    Oisin Member

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    It doesn't have a brim, so there will be warping in the corners. Could I add that myself in repetier or does it have to be added within the slicer? I don't have Simplify3D.
     
  17. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I would have needed to know that :)

    Yes the slicer has to add it.
    Lets try this again : ALL the settings please.
     
  18. Oisin

    Oisin Member

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    Sorry. I did mention that it warped without a brim in the second sentence of the original post but I'm only mentioning it so I don't seem like an idiot now :p

    Layer height: 0.05 (50 microns)
    Infil density: 25% (But I expect that doesn't matter a whole bunch on this print)
    Z-offset: 1.1
    Temp: 195C
    Speed: 20mm/s
    Printed with a brim.

    I hope that's all the important stuff!
     
  19. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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  20. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Glance over it and make sure I didn't fat-finger something.
     

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