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X and Y Ringing on prints - possible solutions

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by jwmueller, Jun 9, 2017.

  1. Warp Norman

    Warp Norman Member

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    Yeah, Mine are bent also. My printing results are the same as the pics you posted originally. I have been in constant communication with Jerry that keeps asking me to check everything. He doesn't except that bent rods cause any printing issues. I pulled the upper and removed the steppers. I can feel the binding as I move the gantry back and forth. He says its a lubrication issue. I've lubed everything. I'm wondering how many of there support staff actually have 3d printer experience. I've asked him twice if we can just replace this printer but he never answers that question.
    In the mean time, I've contacted customer service and they have the rods on order for two weeks and they tell me it'll be a couple of more weeks. They may take care of it in the end but I've had a POS for two months.

    jwmueller, do you have a link for the rods made in Holland?
     
  2. jwmueller

    jwmueller Active Member

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    I ended up ordering in some Misumi rods, both the 6mm and the 8mm. $172 and some change. The tolerances are supposed to be down to the microns over the length of it though. So I thought screw it! 338mm for the 8mm rods, and 318mm for the 6mm

    Here is an EU option
    NL option

    MakerGeeks
     
  3. jwmueller

    jwmueller Active Member

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    Sorry for the double post, but for those on email updates I did not want to just edit my post.

    I did receive another brand of printer with the same type of gantry, upper rods were naturally bent. One was worse than the rest, probably where the dolly sat for the whole delivery drive. Moving that printer by hand was really bad, I did not even attempt to print with it. They did next day me another printer which naturally was not all that great, but I did decide to print with it. Overall this one is better compared to my Robo rods, so the marks it is leaving is smoother and less obvious.

    With my Robo I can feel the marks with my fingernail if that helps. I have been printing clear on this other machine as that is my go to almost free material to use. I am now printing a black part on it, so I will compare the end result to the Robo, Prusa MK2S, and Dreamer machines. I did have another brand machine in, called a Pro if that gives anyone some hints (already sent it back). Oddly enough it had either shipping damage or quality control damage. For fun a picture is attached.

    WP_20170726_07_28_50_Pro (2).jpg
    Top is a really old 4,000+ hour FF Dreamer, bottom was maybe when it was younger or one of my other FF machines. Middle is the mystery machine (not a Robo).
     
  4. Warp Norman

    Warp Norman Member

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    Interesting about the bent rods on the new machine. I didn't have much visible damage to my shipping box. I wonder if they just sourced some cheap rods. Or rough handling at the factory.
     
  5. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Bit of A, Bit of B. Bit of ???????
     
  6. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Yea, it is entirely possible they were installed bent. Not sure how much of or to what extent they have Quality Assurance with the factory. Some I am sure, but not to what level of detail. Qualifies for a replacement machine though I would hope (if you want to go that route)
     
  7. jwmueller

    jwmueller Active Member

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    Wow my new Misumi rods are smooth and straight, placing them next to the old rods you can really see the difference.

    Old rods next to each other you can see the gaps, rotate them around and then the bends are easy to spot. The new rods stay flat as you look and rotate them as a group. Nice and smooth on the gantry, but now I want new bearings. ;)

    Hopefully I will have it printing later today, if I can finish my orders and catch up for a few hours.
     
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  8. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    @jwmueller I would give serious consideration to oil impregnated sintered bushings if they fit. It will be quiet and clean, you can likely run your printer faster too. I used them on an upgrade for my Robo R1 and it made a huge difference in print quality of fast prints. and it lowered the noise level by a noticeable amount. Also no need to keep them all oiled or greased up. They keep the inside of your moving parts clean.

    If I had an R2 that might be the first (or second) upgrade I would do.
     
  9. jwmueller

    jwmueller Active Member

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    Agreed, but after learning to put that back together I should have just waited and bought bearings beforehand.... I don't want to take all that back apart at least for a few months! Starting a print now, so will see what it looks like once it has some height to it. Just watching it print, all of the wobble is completely gone and it sounds smoother. The audible part might just be my mind playing tricks, age, or previous shipping damage to my skull (or items A to Z). ;)
     
  10. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    That good news is decent quality replacement bearings will last a good long while.
    @WheresWaldo experimented with and made the oil impregnated ones work a bit after I had already just replaced all of the LM8UUs in my machines. :) No problems since in any of them, but if they are needing it again I will like go that route.
     
  11. Ed Ferguson

    Ed Ferguson Active Member

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    jwmuller - Maybe do a write-up on reassembly and alignment while it's fresh in your mind?

    I have a slightly bent rod on my R2 - never even noticed until last week. I'd like to replace them all just for grins.

    What grade of stainless did you buy?

    What type of bearings does Robo use in the R2? I'd be willing to try the oil impregnated bushings if they can be made to fit. Heard good things about them in the past.
     
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  12. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Pictures...something...something ...1000 words...
     
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  13. sgomes

    sgomes Active Member

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    I'm seeing lots of ringing in my prints too, with benchies showing the classic waves around the windows on the hull:

    Window ringing.jpg


    The hull is also textured with a weird interference pattern:

    Hull interference.jpg

    Are these the same issues other folks on this thread are seeing? If not, happy to start another thread :)
     
  14. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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  15. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Since I don't have an R2 this is just a guess from the many pictures posted here and a bit of experience with the R1. But is seems that there are a set of 4 LM8UU ball bearings located in the housing for the extruder (please correct this if wrong). The extruder housing design is influenced by Ultimaker so it is built in sections. What I don't know is if any of the bearings are doubled up like the R1 carriage was. You have two choices as I see it and it will boil down to availability and/or ease of modification.

    s-l1600[1].jpg or 51oDXKJklXL._SL1100_[1].jpg

    You have to make sure they are 8mm bore and the outside dimensions are 15 mm x 24 mm. They are not easy to find in that dimention but not impossible either. The only difference between these two is graphite inserts in one and simply a bushing in the other. These would be a drop in replacement for the LM8UU.

    Or you could put a pair of self aligning bushings on either side of the extruder housing like these.
    spyrabronzepf[1].jpg

    These require a slight modification to the extruder housing as they are 15.9 mm in the outside dimension as opposed to LM8UU which are 15 mm. You need this if you are going to press fit the bearings on each side of the extruder housing so that they can self-aligh to the one on the opposite side of the extruder. These bushings are a bit easier to find online, not easy, just easier.

    On my R1 I oiled these during the break in period and pretty much have run my linear rails dry ever since then, no messing with grease or oil and no collecting dust and dirt all over the rails. They have truly been maintenance free, smooth, and quiet
     
  16. jwmueller

    jwmueller Active Member

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    The bearings inside the extruder are longer than my other printers, I should have measured them before I put that all back. Good thing with the extruder is that once you have done it a few times, it is not all that bad to break apart (6mm rods).

    So to get the whole gantry assembly off is rather easy. 8 screws around the inside of the inner rim, plus 2 more below the stepper motors. Pull the two limit switch wires off, along with the stepper wires (well don't pull them, use the proper tools to pop them out).

    Then just lift! I was expecting clips and all that other fun stuff. Putting it all back was just as easy.

    I will takes some pictures, and do a write up. To align the gantry I actually just used those shipping clips, so don't throw them away as they are useful. I used the clips to hold one axis at a time while I tightened the pulley set screws, then moved to the other side of the gantry, repeated for all four sides.
     
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  17. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Excellent
     
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  18. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    So the gantry linear rails are only 6 mm? Is that the same on the R2 and the C2?
     
  19. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    On the C2 my micrometer says 6.00
     
  20. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Because, you know, 8mm rods are soooo non-standard ;)
     

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