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Unanswered A couple of questions from a Newbie

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Toro1966, Jul 21, 2016.

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  1. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

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    Hey guys - Been getting alot of help with my sons R1+ - Thanks Geof and Mark!

    Now I just received my second one and am trying to get it going. I did search some threads but had a couple of questions because this one is not working exactly the same as the other one we have.
    1 - I opened the box, set it up, loaded in the filament (ABS) and I set the Z offset to .9 Yes, positive .9 I did that by mistake. I meant to put in .-9. My problem is that based on the multiple threads here on z offset and figuring out which direction is which, my understanding is that a positive .9 should have pushed the nozzle into the bed. It did not, it extruded above the bed. When I went in to change it to -.9, and try it again, it drove it INTO the glass. That seems to be completely backwards with my understanding of how this should work. Any thoughts on this? Also, the firmware is V1. I am getting ready to flash to V2, which is the latest, but does V1 work differently?

    2 - Does the printed square on the glass bed have anything to do with where it should actually print? I ask because this prints slightly off towards the rear. Just wanted to know if this was normal or if I needed to do some calibration. Thanks again guys!
     
    #1 Toro1966, Jul 21, 2016
    mark tomlinson and Geof like this.
  2. Ryan TeGantvoort

    Ryan TeGantvoort Active Member

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    V2 only has a few changes (nothing crucial) documented here:

    http://community.robo3d.com/index.php?threads/r1-firmware-v2-whats-changed.8400/

    If you are talking about MatterControl's placement within the slicer, and where it actually prints, that has always been wrong.

    -0.9 should have raised above the bed and 0.9 should have tried to go below the bed. Not sure what is happening in your case.
     
    #2 Ryan TeGantvoort, Jul 21, 2016
  3. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    I dont use matter control so i wont be of any help but where are you setting the z in matter control?

    The markings on the bed are just decoration
     
    #3 Geof, Jul 21, 2016
  4. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

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    Thanks Geof. I am entering the offset in MatterControl in the settings. I really need to get this offset figured out and my issue is that the manual and what I experienced says one thing and what I have read on here says another. The manual says positive value move the hotend away from the bed and negative values move it closer. That's the opposite of what I got on here last week. I definitely know you guys are the experts, I am just trying to find the ground truth so I can make sure the prints are good.
     
    #4 Toro1966, Jul 21, 2016
  5. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Matter xontrol is an odd vird. It may automatically make the number negative. Go with a positive number is higher off the bed like your experiencing. I use s3d not matter control so my advice is the run with what works :)
     
    #5 Geof, Jul 21, 2016
  6. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    If you are NOT directly setting it with the M565 command in the startup GCode ... if you are instead setting it as a a parameter in the slicer ... it is entirely up that that software how they end up generating the M565 GCode*. In other words, they may well expect it to be positive and they make it negative.

    You might want to review their documentation. Not everyone here uses it:

    http://wiki.mattercontrol.com/Main_Page


    *they may not actually even use M565, There are other ways the slicer can calculate in the offset.
     
    #6 mark tomlinson, Jul 21, 2016
  7. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    To be certain it is entered the way you expect you would need to just added it to the startup gcode block in the slicer.
     
    #7 mark tomlinson, Jul 21, 2016
  8. Rigmarol

    Rigmarol Well-Known Member

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    I'm getting it I think. Gcode is one way, MatterControl settings is another.
     
    #8 Rigmarol, Jul 21, 2016
  9. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    MatterControl settings (should) end up doing much the same as you editing the startup GCode block, but... I can't speak for that program. Even in Simplify3D I just edit the startup GCode block to be certain that it is included where I want it. That and I keep multiple profiles for the different printers.
     
    #9 mark tomlinson, Jul 22, 2016
  10. danzca6

    danzca6 Well-Known Member

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    I am hearing of that issue more and more and I believe MC is messing with the offset and turning negative to positive and so on. I don't see anything with the firmware for the R1+ that would have changed the fact you need a negative Z offset when using the nozzle for the bed probe. I really need to install the latest MC and see for myself. You could go ahead and save the sliced model to a file and open it with a text editor. You should be able to search for the M565 code and see if the Z value is being set to negative when you select a positive value in MC or vice versa. I know MC want's to make things simple, but I like to have a bit more control (or transparency) of what is going into my gcode. That is why I moved onto using Cura. Still free, and after you get it setup it has been a great slicer.
     
    #10 danzca6, Jul 22, 2016
  11. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

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    Thanks for the great comments everyone and advice. I haven't been able to look at the GCode yet, but I am absolutely convinced that MC is changing the values to the way they make sense, not the way they are in the firmware. This is confirmed by going to the MC Wiki (Manual) which says positive values move the hotend away from the bed while negative values move it closer.
     
    #11 Toro1966, Jul 22, 2016
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  12. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

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    A couple of more questions:
    1 - using the starter blue filament and have the setting to fine. It almost looks like it's extruding clear. There is definitely printing going on, but it's almost as if it's not blue. If that makes sense. Is that the filament or the fact that the layer height is only .1mm.

    2. I notice sometimes - depending on what I print and the filament, that after it gets through a layer and it is re-positioning, it seems to press into the layer. What setting will fix that - assuming it's a setting.

    Thanks as always everyone!
     
    #12 Toro1966, Jul 22, 2016
  13. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    for #1...the blue filament can be very troublesome and isn't very good quality. I wouldn't stress about it to much, but yes thinner layers will change how most colors look while printing, but typically its because the layer is very thin. I always try for 1mm top bottom and shells. so .1mm layer height = 10 top and 10 bottom layers, 10 shells. .3 layers I do 3,3,3 etc. That way the coverage is there. If you do 2 bottom layers with .1 mm layer height you'll notice the bottom layers you can see through :D .

    2. I'm not sure i totally understand? What do you mean pressing into the print? I'm assuming a blob of filament where it restarts? If so play with your retraction settings :D

    3.(I added this one) when playing with settings to get things dialed in I use fast prints like the deprime print located on thingiverse.
    http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:66175

    I also get sick of this, and calibration cubes and the such :D lol. so I start doing random prints that have overhangs or spaces between printed parts etc :D. Its easier for me to give away a robot than a cube :D
     
    #13 Geof, Jul 22, 2016
  14. danzca6

    danzca6 Well-Known Member

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    It could be pushing out whatever filament you had prior that is left over. I used the robo blue sample and it came out blue, but I switched to another filament shortly after getting it because their blue doesn't have the best track record for quality filament.

    do you have a pic of what it looks like when it presses into the next layer?
     
    #14 danzca6, Jul 22, 2016
  15. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

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    Thanks for the help guys. Definitely pushing out the blue as I have printed the calibration cubes with it beforehand. That said, I printed those on medium setting. Going to try this print on medium as well and see if I get similar results.

    Will post pics in a bit if all goes well.

    As far as dragging through the layer. I think the issue is the fan is off for the first few layers. So after it is done with a layer and re positions, the first layer is not dry so the nozzle basically goes through it. It's not bad, I was just wondering if there was another reason.
     
    #15 Toro1966, Jul 22, 2016
  16. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

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    OK that stuff is just major crap! I tried on medium and the same thing. it's barely extruding. Yet if I lift the extruder up off the bed, it will extrude fine. Switched to some other Robo filament because I got an Amazon deal with 6 rolls for free. I am using the metallic silver now and it is printing beautifully.
     
    #16 Toro1966, Jul 22, 2016
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  17. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

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    #17 Toro1966, Jul 22, 2016
    Rigmarol and Geof like this.
  18. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    That is the general consensus :)
     
    #18 mark tomlinson, Jul 22, 2016
  19. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    It can look good.. but my word does it take some tinkering. I did both of these in the sample blue (joker was 2 pieces)
    :)

    My advice is dont throw it away print nick nacks for people with it
     

    Attached Files:

    #19 Geof, Jul 22, 2016
  20. danzca6

    danzca6 Well-Known Member

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    ABS doesn't need cooling but PLA does. I suggest having the fab oft for the first layer of PLA, but bump it on for all the other layers.
     
    #20 danzca6, Jul 22, 2016
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