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Auto-leveling just... quit working

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Park A., Dec 23, 2017.

  1. Park A.

    Park A. New Member

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    After the last homing, before a print starts, my extruder will quickly go through all the points where it would normally auto-level via the IR sensor; however, now the bed doesn't move into place in order for the auto-level to function.

    How do I bring back the auto-leveling? I've tried going though S3D and inserting a G28 and G29 script, that was tragic. . . Then I reloaded the boot sd card with the original files, I also reset controls and reset EEPROM. After re-calibrating the Z-offset I tried another test print and it's still just going through the motions. I even tried pushing a .stl through the onboard slicer thinking maybe I had something wrong is S3D - nope, still no auto-leveling.

    Hope all is well, and thanks in advance!
     
  2. Kilrah

    Kilrah Well-Known Member

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    Sensor dirty? If the Z isn't moving it's liklely becasue the sensor is already being triggered at the height it's at...
     
  3. Park A.

    Park A. New Member

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    I'll check. I didn't think of that.

    The way the extruder zips through the procedure seems more deliberate though. If cleaning the sensor doesn't work, I'll take a quick video clip, put it on YouTube, and post a link. I feel like I'm not explaining this very well.
     
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  4. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    It does sound like it is getting a false positive from the sensor, so dirt may be the issue.
    If not it may well be a fault with the sensor itself (or the wiring). I wouldn't think this a slicer issue since the entire movement during autoleveling is controlled by the G29
     
  5. Park A.

    Park A. New Member

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    I cleaned the sensor, still no bueno (unless what I cleaned was not, in fact, the sensor). I'll throw some pics and a video up today.

    So the sensor could be bad? There are less than five hours of printing on this machine, albeit there are about 60 hours of work that I've put into it to get the five(ish) hours of failed prints.

    I was JUST thinking to myself this morning, "I hope I get another opportunity SOON to engage Robo3d and their customer service apparatus". Because I haven't had enough of that yet.

    ^^ that is my sarcastic font ^^
     
  6. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Anything is possible :) They are fairly complex little machines (manufacturing plants).

    Manual leveling might be an option while you wait for a replacement. The R2 is larger than the C2 and more of a hassle to manually level, but I just manual leveled the C2 (like we did the R1 units which closer to the R2 in bed size) and I no longer even engage/use the autoleveling. Just a thought.
     
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  7. Park A.

    Park A. New Member

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    Well Mark, you're right again! I went down to the shop and took a sensor off a Robo R2 and put it on mine at home; like magic the auto leveling is restored. I would have NEVER thought the sensor had gone bad.

    Thanks for the advice!!
     
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  8. Park A.

    Park A. New Member

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    This is a fairly emotional post at (almost) midnight on the East Coast. I guess that's my disclaimer of sorts. Maybe this is just me coming to terms with my Robo Reality and considering my options.


    Once again, here I am, losing my battle against Robo3d and the R2. Now, instead of just going through the motions for auto-level, the bed just continues to raise along the z-axis and drives all-full-ahead into the nozzle - all the while grinding the stepper motor and shoving a huge divot into the bed until I can shut it down. The "cancel" function is merely a suggestion for the R2 to consider for some other time.

    I recently replaced the IR sensor with parts from a printer at work, which fixed my original ABL issue. This prompted me to check it again, this sensor is dead now, too. There's no red glow, no blink, no attempt to sense anything; no sign of life. So, two IR sensors down in as many days.

    To recap what's going on over at my place: I STILL don't have a functioning R2, and one of the printers at my classroom is down for the same reason - faulty IR sensor (perhaps an electrical short killing all of the IR sensors I can get my hands on). Neither of which are acceptable.

    I am fully versed on the workings, or lack thereof, of Robo3d's customer service protocol. This community right here is the ONLY reason I haven't leveraged legal action against Robo3d. . .yet.

    In recent months, of the Robo R2s that I've had the unfortunate obligation to troubleshoot, I've dealt with Robert Leal, Dan Whitty, Konrad, and even Braydon Moreno. It's been an insulting experience to receive canned, copy & paste answers to my requests for help, when I've clearly articulated in the request that I've already taken the exact steps I'm being told to execute.:mad: Zero effort from Robo3d to actually help me through my printer problems; max effort placed on regurgitating their troubleshooting FAQ page. All on a printer, mind you, that doesn't even remotely come close to delivering what it is advertised to deliver.

    It pains me to cut my losses, but it seems harder to justify continuing down this path of incredible frustration and zero-sum reform.

    SOME progress, ANY progress would be something, indeed.

    This R2 that I have is useless as a printer, but I'm willing to part this thing out if anyone out there needs parts. Please, DO NOT ASK ME FOR AN IR SENSOR! I'm still a bit fragile.:confused::( I am not trying to recoup any losses, so we can talk about shipping costs for parts, etc. . . This community has been amazing, IS amazing, I can't say that enough. Giving back would bring me pride.

    I might have lost some of you at "legal action" on the grounds that it may not be worth it. Consider this: I'm debt free, live a respectable lifestyle, and I hold values like responsibility and accountability in the highest regard - the very values that are the antithesis of Robo3d. While it will undoubtedly cost me something to hold Robo3d accountable, who has more to lose in litigation? And how many disgruntled Robo3d customers might want to jump on a bandwagon of even the slightest public success?
     
  9. Kilrah

    Kilrah Well-Known Member

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    Us, becasue you'd likely bring down a company that makes a good product and actually is pretty good on the support side compared to others. Go find a manufacturer of hobby grade level 3D printers that does better and come again.

    It's just the usual issue of marketing it as a consumer product. Marketing gives people the expectation that it is, but a hobby grade 3D printer will never be something that can be supported as a consumer product for the foreseeable future.
     
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  10. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    @Park A. You do what you need to get a resolution. If that means you need to escalate your issues, you have every right to do so. I hope you do find what you are looking for.

    Just a note to temper what @Kilrah is saying, there are no single consumer appliances that are 3D printers currently on the market. 3D printing has evolved much from its humble beginnings coming from a CNC background, but like most CNC machines there are no appliances in the market. Once they progress to that point then you will see the likes of HP, Epson, Brother, Canon and many other of the larger printer manufacturers jump into the market. Until then a 3D printer will be a tinkerer's machine.
     
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  11. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    I sent a link to this thread to the Robo team that assists us with the forum. If you have completely given up on the 2 R2 units you are more than welcome to ship them to me and I can try to fix them for you or find them good homes but since these machines are under warranty (I assume yours still is?) it would be quite foolish to cut your loses in my opinion. I understand frustration but that is why there is a community here to back you up.

    As far as the IR sensor is concerned, can you please swap cables from your good unit to this malfunctioning one? That would tell us if its the IR sensor (doubful since you swapped and it worked) cable (maybe, could be a connection coming lose), or further downsteam.

    You mention having 2 R2 units and neither of them work? Can you elaborate on whats wrong with the 2nd one? (other than missing an IR sensor, but likely you can put your old IR sensor on the other machine and it will probably be fine).

    And of course if you dont feel like going through all this ask them to exchange your unit under warranty for repair

    OR

    if you want to do some trouble shooting with me PM me and we can go through the 2 machines. Phone call, skype, email with pictures, in this thread, DM whatever you prefer.
     
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  12. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    A fair assessment for those of us who have used different brands and have multiple printers, it is harsh if you are one of the unlucky ones who get a non-working unit (more so if it is your first 3D printer). Robo still needs to work on beefing up their support (both in terms of access/options and level of knowledge available). I suspect their 2nd tier folks are better (no personal experience) but that requires a scheduled appointment...
     
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  13. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    :D tons of different brand machines and literally crap service on the majority. Its difficult to get the service we have come to expect as consumers at the desktop level. And honestly at the prosumer (if you believe thats a real thing) its worse unless its paid.
     
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  14. Jerry RoBo 3D

    Jerry RoBo 3D Administrator
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    Hi Park A. I first want to apologize you are having trouble with your machines. I'm responsible for our production and QC. I can assure you we test every single machine and complete a print before we ship them. What I can't guarantee is that some parts fail down the road. The only way we can solve those issues is to track them and collect the bad parts, replace them for our customers, and go back to our suppliers and make sure they are giving us the highest quality parts.

    We are working on improving our customer support. Our teir 1 support is very basic. We plan to have a much better teir 1 level during our open hours.

    We are happy to replace the IR sensor and any other part you need replaced.

    I think a quick video of the auto-level sequence you are experiencing would be extremely helpful. I can't make out exactly what you are describing. Would you be able to post a short video of the problem?
     
  15. Park A.

    Park A. New Member

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    Whose calmed down and ready to make progress?!? -- this guy --

    I'll try to cover everyone's reply, questions, comments, retorts, AND clear up some (possibly) misunderstood intentions... I'm bound to miss something important.

    @Kilrah I have no intentions or desire to ruin or even degrade Robo3d. But you're absolutely right, if my course of action has the potential to negatively affect (effect?) the greater maker community, then it's probably the wrong course of action.

    @WheresWaldo thanks for the support. Rapid escalation is rarely required when issues are titrated appropriately AND communication is effective, which inherently relies on rational transmit and receive mechanisms and some semblance of desire or common ground. I understand 3d printing takes work, anything worth while does; from Family and faith, to gardening and welding. But there is what I consider to be a reasonable expectation for progress/improvement, which requires a foundation on which to build skills and earn those improvements. I'm my case, in this instance, my progress/improvement (my opportunity to learn) is continually stymied by this particular equipment failing; equipment that I would not expect to fail so dramatically or so frequently.

    I don't expect a consumer appliance grade printer, but I do expect a reasonable level of resiliency in hardware, especially when certain technologies have existed for quite some time (the touch screen on these R2s is infuriating). I thoroughly enjoy tinkering, in fact, I view this aspect critical to abstract thought and believe it to be woven into the very fabric that draws us all to making stuff. However, tinkering becomes cumbersome, perhaps even frightening, when a person is afraid to drive forward with new ideas because a seemingly benign action could render a tool (printer, welder, soldering iron, sewing machine, RC platform, etc.) inoperable. This breeds the idea that a person needs to operate between left and right limits that are far more constraining than what exists within the realm of possible. This fear, or frustration, is the exact opposite from what I believe we all want: confident makers and open minds; I truly believe as a dad, and an educator, the practice of expanding upon what's reasonable leads to expanding upon what's possible. The hardware that we rely on should safely encourage us to reach farther.

    @Geof thank you for you're offers to help and for reminding me that there is a like-minded community of folks who are dedicated to the proliferation of success. I have not given up, though I am cautiously optimistic.

    @Jerry RoBo 3D / everyone here, thank you. I will provide vids, pics, and clarification shortly. I have to get going this evening, but I do look forward to continued discussion.
     
    #15 Park A., Dec 28, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
  16. Jerry RoBo 3D

    Jerry RoBo 3D Administrator
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    Hi Park,

    It was an absolute pleasure to read your thoughts posted above and I agree with you on every point. I am anxious to help you overcome the issues you are having and restore your faith in our product and our company. I hope you have a wonderful evening and I look forward to getting down into the weeds of these issues and ridding your machine of them while meeting/exceeding your expectations.
     
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  17. Park A.

    Park A. New Member

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    Thank you, Jerry. You have my attention. It's important that you know, I too am dedicated to overcoming these issues; but I know I can't do it without support from Robo3d.

    While I am beyond grateful for this community, I can't help but feel as though context may be lost, personalities misunderstood, or even sarcasm misread when engaging via text. When possible, I'd like to stay in touch with you and your colleagues via phone or video chat (that goes for all members of this community as well), and I am not opposed to traveling to the left coast if you would be amenable to that - I don't want to rush things, our relationship has just begun.

    As much as I need everyone's help now, I have an intense desire to learn and give back. As stated earlier, this capability is in its infancy, and wrought with issues, growth, tech compatibility/integration, and narrow margins for error. I am certainly not the last of our kind to experience frustration; I want to become a resource.

    We become royalty in our own little microcosms. We interact with each other based on our life experience, our education, our values, and of course our DNA; often with wreckless disregard (or flat-out assumptions) for others' experiences or education or values. I have a theory that most people are afraid to reach out and perhaps risk the crown, and in doing so sacrifice valuable experiences and education. My point is, I am humbled; I am grateful that there are these incredibly smart and experienced people willing to assist a bitter cynic.
     
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  18. Park A.

    Park A. New Member

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    As an ordinary guy who has been afforded some extraordinary opportunities, I have both gained and lost credibility - each under dire circumstances in some cases. As an exercise in introspection, I've searched for commonalities in my successes in hopes of learning how to replicate them, AND teach my children how to succeed without having to make mistakes of their own <-- that is an exercise in futility, BTW. But there is ONE common attribute, I've found, that is ALWAYS there in EVERY case, which I gained (or regained) credibility, trust, and faith. . . Authenticity. That's all it takes.
     
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  19. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    @Jerry RoBo 3D is about as authentic as it gets. Plus we are all here along for the ride if you need (and please do keep us posted). Offer still stands for any or all of us to help you out as well, head up and lets get them printers printing :D
     
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  20. Park A.

    Park A. New Member

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    @Jerry RoBo 3D @WheresWaldo @mark tomlinson @Kilrah @Geof

    The video is shot vertically because it just seemed to make sense considering the shape of the printer. The video description explains my actions just before I hit record. Really looking forward to your thoughts and (hopefully) possible fixes. Thanks guys!
     

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