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Unresolved PETG warping on large parts.

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Nathanfish, Nov 22, 2015.

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  1. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    You are using it directly on the glass, correct?
     
    #21 mark tomlinson, Nov 24, 2015
  2. Nathanfish

    Nathanfish Active Member

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    yes directly on glass. Second time was better but still warped on one corner. Bed just cooled down and i reapplied more and am going to up my first two layers to 245. I don't get why i fight this so much.
     
    #22 Nathanfish, Nov 24, 2015
  3. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    Warping be a harsh mistress
     
    #23 Mike Kelly, Nov 25, 2015
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  4. Nathanfish

    Nathanfish Active Member

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    Yes it is. I got off at noon today so spending the afternoon experimenting. I received the MIC-6 plates for my beds yesterday and trimmed down 2 of my Y axis rods to 19" at work this morning. Definitely a lot more stable and still have about 14" of travel. Just waiting on my PEI to get here any minute and i will experiment with that again. I think i'd rather have the problem of it sticking too well than warping up. At least all i can really trash is a $35 sheet of PEI now.. Hopefully experimenting with temperatures and glue stick on top of the PEI will give me consistent results.

    I have one printing running right now with the glass bed and a layer of wolfbite and then gluestick on top of that. Seems to be sticking good, we'll see how it comes off though and if my results stay consistent.

    On a side note, I bought a Micro3D printer a few weeks ago to play with. What a piece of junk.. Printer might be capable but the software!! sucks so bad. And no simplify support other than slicing it and using their software. what a shame.
     
    #24 Nathanfish, Nov 25, 2015
  5. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    So @Nathanfish how was the service from Midwest Steel & Aluminum?
     
    #25 WheresWaldo, Nov 25, 2015
  6. Nathanfish

    Nathanfish Active Member

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    It was good, don't think they ever emailed me a tracking number but was able to long in on their website and track it. These aluminum plates heat up so much better than glass that i'm wondering if i really needed the new heaters i ordered. I know they will be better but i think the aluminum alone will make a big difference.

    I'm going to get the PEI and stock heater installed on the smaller plate and hopefully do some test prints this afternoon. Still running parts on glass on the other one with mixed results.
     
    #26 Nathanfish, Nov 27, 2015
  7. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    There are a few guys on other forums who are bead blasting the surface of the MIC-6 plate. Bead blast does not use abrasive material, rather it uses little glass beads, it provides a satin like finish that I am told improves adhesion to the bed. I have 25 lbs of glass beads and a handheld blaster, I might try it. The glass gets all over the place and I have to do it outside as I don't have a blast cabinet. I may have to order a MIC-6 plate for my Robo as my glass is chipped, then a heater pad that fits the build area. But I have other more pressing upgrades in the works. Plus I found a source for a 40A power supply that is the same form factor as the 30A in the Robo, so I ordered one this morning. Cheap too, here is the link: Referral link, Power supply. There are complaints about it being noisy, but that is easily fixed with a new fan and I also usually under-rate the power supply, so I will never try to run this over about 35A max. But this gives me a chance to use a 250W or even 300W heater simultaneously with the hotend to heat both of them at startup.

    If you don't have a Banggood account please use my referral link above, it will provide us both with discounts.
     
    #27 WheresWaldo, Nov 27, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2015
  8. Nathanfish

    Nathanfish Active Member

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    Hmm, nice, i have access to a bead blast cabinet at work. I tried the aluminum with glue stick just like my glass and it didn't stick at all. Weird that it didn't work like glass does. I think i'm just going to go ahead and scotch brite the side and use my 3m double sided tape to stick the PEI on.

    Nice, what upgrades are you working on if you don't mind me asking? Hopefully once i get my 14" bed reliable i can find another upgrade i want to do. 4 more inches of Y travel opens up so much more i can print for work so maybe i'll just buy a third and go even bigger for my next upgrade. Lead screw upgrade would be nice but i haven't had any issues with the stock ones so i'll probably wait.
     
    #28 Nathanfish, Nov 27, 2015
  9. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    First up is replacing the LM8UU bearings holding the Y axis rods. I am going to use these instead. http://www.ultibots.com/8mm-bronze-bearing-4-pack-a-7z41mpsb08m/
    [​IMG]
    Self-aligning and oil impregnated, it will quiet the axis moves and actually increase the effective bearing load as dual inline bearings have a effective bearing size based on the center to center measurements of the bearing surface I just need to reprint the pillow blocks to accommodate them. Then use the same on the X axis carriage, that will require drilling out the carriage to 15.9 mm rather than the 15 mm it currently is. My goal will be to get something with a longer life than the IGUS or any other plastic bearing as well as limiting the lubrication necessary to keep all the Axes running smoothly. As a result it should be quieter too.

    After that the only upgrades are more cosmetic in nature, RGB LEDs instead of blue (might just go straight white if I get lazy). Switching out the Arduino/RAMPS Motherboard/Daughterboard with an integrated board that has stepper drivers capable of 1/32 microsteps, not just 1/16.

    I was contemplating @jim3Dbot's IR leveling but with my current lead screw mod the repeatability of the Z probe is so good that I find it unnecessary.

    By the way, my version of the lead screw upgrade only cost me $27.00
     
    #29 WheresWaldo, Nov 27, 2015
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  10. Nathanfish

    Nathanfish Active Member

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    hmm nice, i'll have to go back and read through your post again about the lead screws. I need at least one printer up and running so i have to be careful about making sure at least one is reliable. These blue lights must go, maybe i'll just do that next.
     
    #30 Nathanfish, Nov 27, 2015
  11. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    I just posted a picture with the results of the Make.com Z resonance printer test. The default Robo failed this test miserably when tested by Make, but so did a lot of other printers. If I was paying attention it would have even turned out better. With all the parts in hand, the upgrade took less than 30 minutes total, and no need to replace motors.
     
    #31 WheresWaldo, Nov 27, 2015
  12. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    The oil impregnated bushings/bronze bearings are really nice. More than capable for the job.
     
    #32 mark tomlinson, Nov 27, 2015
  13. Nathanfish

    Nathanfish Active Member

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    Wellll i'm back. Shit has been crazy. I installed my aluminum bed with PEI and heater yesterday and got everything fired up. Tried to run a test cube today to see how well the PETG stuck to and released for the PEI with glue stick but got a "Printer stopped due to errors" about 3 min in. I can't figure out what the errors are. Any ideas? I run an M999 to restart but it just keeps giving me that error now.

    Also I'm guessing it's because of the aluminum plate but this takes forever to get up to 80 degrees with the new heater.
     
    #33 Nathanfish, Dec 2, 2015
  14. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    You are going to need to export the entire communications log and find the errors.
     
    #34 mark tomlinson, Dec 2, 2015
  15. Nathanfish

    Nathanfish Active Member

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    RECEIVED: Printer stopped due to errors. Fix the error and use M999 to restart. (Temperature is reset. Set it after restarting)

    Am i missing something here?
     
    #35 Nathanfish, Dec 2, 2015
  16. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    There is an actual error reported further back (often MUCH further back). That is what keeps repeating when the slicer software keeps slogging along.
     
    #36 mark tomlinson, Dec 2, 2015
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  17. Nathanfish

    Nathanfish Active Member

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    Rookie... Yeah my extruder temp keeps dropping. I have a screw in thermistor on this machine because i was having problems with the stock one. Guess i'll troubleshoot that now. Thanks.
     
    #37 Nathanfish, Dec 2, 2015
  18. Nathanfish

    Nathanfish Active Member

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    Yeah these are the same problems I had back when this machine was running last. I think the stud thermistor sticks out too far from the block or something. I wrapped it in PTFE but i still had to shut the parts fan completely off for it to not drop temp and fail. Maybe i just need to go back to the stock thermistor. It's been running since i shut the fan off with no problems.

    Thanks again for the help.
     
    #38 Nathanfish, Dec 2, 2015
  19. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Complete the PID autotune, it will help a little with keeping the temps more stable, Also make sure you parts fan is pointed at the model not the heater block.

    http://reprap.org/wiki/PID_Tuning

    Just as an FYI, PID is not enabled for the heated bed, It will work a bit better if you enable it also.
     
    #39 WheresWaldo, Dec 3, 2015
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  20. Nathanfish

    Nathanfish Active Member

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    Cool, I'm going to get out of work at noon and go mess with it some more. The fan is the same as whats on my other printer and i don't have any problems. I printed a couple new ducts so maybe i'll install that on the printer i'm having problems with. Seems like the smallest bit of air flow screws up the temp. Hopefully the PID tune will help though. Thanks again!
     
    #40 Nathanfish, Dec 3, 2015
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