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Prints not sticking/overall bad quality when it does

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by m.hunter509, Nov 19, 2018.

  1. m.hunter509

    m.hunter509 New Member

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    I recently replaced the motherboard (due to wrong temp readings) and upgraded the bed to a V2 (after the infamous pogo pins failure). After that, I had two successful prints that printed extremely well before my current issue started. The PLA doesn't seem to stick to the bed after just those two first successful prints, and the material seems to kinda "stick" to the nozzle. I seasoned the nozzle after reading through a few posts on here, but it's still doing the same thing. Since the PLA leaves a very thin line of plastic to the extruder, it gets pulled up and the print starts messing up.

    I was finally able to get a 3D benchy to print since it was on a thick raft, but the print quality was terrible. You can see the bad layers and some of the thin PLA "hairs" sticking out.

    What I've done so far: Calibrated the z-offset lots of times, from making it a little too close to the bed to a little too far. Printed at multiple temps, from 180-200 on the extruder and 50-60 on the bed. Tried prints sliced with Cura, S3D, from ones stock on the R2 like the benchy, even tried the prints that just printed perfectly after I installed the new V2 bed. Seasoned the nozzle with canola oil, and let it extrude plastic for a long time after to make sure no residual oil was left. Still the same results after everything.

    I've been going back and forth with support but I'm getting nowhere. I don't understand how it can print perfectly twice after just replacing the mobo and bed, then start doing this. This R2 was a test R2 my work bought to see if we should buy 10+ more for our remote locations, but after the pogo pins failure, the mobo failure, and now this (on top of the constant troubleshooting), my boss is saying we need to go with a different company. So any help at all is definitely appreciated.

    ZoffsetFineTune.jpg 3DBenchyTest.jpg BadFirstLayer.jpg
     
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  2. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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  3. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    As for the Pogo pin issues. Those should be in the past.
    Electronics die on all of them... all of them :) and some of them use much more expensive electronics too.

    Try running the Z offset wizard (and the fine tuning wizard) again
     
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  4. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    ditto to the first layer. a bit closer would be good. manually offset it through options, eeprom, home offset. That makes it where you dont have to do the offset wizard over and over again. you can adjust the numbers quickly that way to find your perfect offset. Your temp looks very hot on the benchy.

    As far as not sticking (if your certain the bed is level and the filament has the proper "squish" ) you can lightly sand the buildtak or even clean it with iso alcohol (dirty buildtak will not let prints stick). Stuff like finger print oil will make it not stick as well, cleaner the better. If still struggling add some gluestick (elmers purple dissapearing) or hairspray (aquanet extra hold). Then report back.

    Unfortunately no matter what machine you buy, first layer adhesion will be a bug ya gotta work out, and like @mark tomlinson mentioned- part failures is just part of the mix. I cant say anything about support since all us here are users not Robo, but I'm certain we can get ya rollin.

    Pogo pins would mean your machine is rather old? I believe they went away quite a while ago. You also have one of 4 motherboards I've heard of dying which is pretty incredible lol. The board was showing wrong temps?
     
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  5. m.hunter509

    m.hunter509 New Member

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    Yeah the R2 is a little over a year old. I've adjusted the z-offset so it is too close to the bed and too far, each resulted in the same. Yeah the bed is completely level and was even at the same adjustments when it printed perfectly, but I still readjusted just in case. I'll go ahead and lightly sand the buildtak. Wasn't sure if that would be it since it's brand new and only had two prints completed before having this issue.

    I've test printed the PLA anywhere between 180-200 and still resulted the same. Should I keep trying at lower temps?

    Yeah after replacing the pogo pin board, the temps were so off to a point that I couldn't print anymore. After troubleshooting with support, they said the mobo was bad and to buy a replacement. The temps when back to normal after that.
     
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  6. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    keep us posted on what you find and we can continue on from there
     
  7. TransBat

    TransBat Member

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    For what it's worth, I would have some similar adhesion issues, and found after I disabled the auto-level sensor on my R2 (and C2) via the GCode section of Octo-Print, and tweaked my z-offset and thumbscrews a bit, I was able to repeatedly able to get decent prints. If I turned my auto-level sensor back on, problems returned. I've run with the auto-level sensor disabled for months.

    Jerry from Robo suggested trying with the auto-level sensor disabled, and it made all the difference. Apparently, some of the auto-level sensors firmware get "hosed", and cause some issues from that point on. Robo did replace the sensor on my C2 model, and I've had decent results from that once it was replaced. You need specialty equipment to flash the firmware on the auto-level sensor, as it is not touched by the core Robo OS/Octoprint firmware updates.

    My PLA+/Pro from sEun prints at 205/45, and MatterHackers Build Series PLA at 205/40.
     
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  8. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Indeed most of us users that print alot manually level and turn off autolevel.
     
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  9. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Yep that is 90 seconds I am not wasting every print ;)
     
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  10. Jordan Dunn

    Jordan Dunn New Member

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    Could you elaborate a bit more on this? I am having issues after my first year with the R2 & the addition of the flex buildtak.

    If the sensor is off. Does it have to be re-calibrated every time you turn the machine off and on?

    I calibrate one day, and have great first layer and prints. Wait a few days and start a print...all junk.
     
  11. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    No. calibration should be one and done (for awhile) unless your bed level is wonky, sensor is dirty, or just plain failing. What surface are you using on your buildtak? Black buildtak? White buildtak? Yellowish/clear PEI?
     
  12. TransBat

    TransBat Member

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    @Jordan Dunn to disable your Auto-level sensor, you have to visit your printer's OctoPrint interface by visiting its IP Address on a web browser. You need to edit the GCode settings by performing the following:
    • Click on Settings (upper right corner)
    • In the new Window that pops-up, select "GCODE Scripts" from the top left menu under the "Printer" heading
    • At the top of the scripts window in the section labeled "Before job starts", scroll down and find the section the says:
      • ; Robo Leveling
        G36
      • Place a ; in front of the G36
      • Place a G28 on the next line below the ;G36
    • Click save
    Your auto-level sensor is now disabled. This is non-destructive - you can re-enable your auto-level sensor by removing the semi-colon in front of the G36 and placing it in front of the G28. Whenever you print, unless you have any auto-leveling code in your slicer, your printer will no longer run the auto-leveling routine as part of it's warm-up/prep for a print job.

    Through some guidance via @mark tomlinson @Geof @WheresWaldo (my apologies if I missed anyone), I really no longer use the advanced/manual bed leveling wizards. I've taken to running these steps whenever I need to re-level my bed (extruder clog, swapped out my v2 build plate for the flex plate, etc):
    • I run the standard z-offset wizard to obtain my initial value
    • I then run the R2 Spiral Level test (as often as needed) to adjust my z-offset for that correct amount of "squish"
      • To fine-tune my z-offset I use my R2 touch panel
        • Click Utilities > Options > EEPROM > Home offset
        • Adjust my height up or down by .02 (this is the most precise/minimal amount of movement then can be achieved according to one of the 3 wisemen I mentioned above)
        • Save the EEPROM value, and return to the main Robo menu screen
      • Run the R2 Spiral Level test (as often as needed), this time adjusting the 4 thumbscrews to raise and lower the corners so that the 2 spiral perimeters merge cleanly with a thin but distinct line between them
      • While perhaps a lame way to remember which direction to turn the thumbscrews, I have found this helpful:
        • Turn Right (Clockwise) to Raise the corner
        • Turn Left (Counter-clockwise) to Lower the corner
    For OCD, I also make sure to align the same edges of my flex sheet with my print bed (left and front edges) ;)

    Hopefully this information is helpful, and not a confusing mess. This method typically takes between 5-15 minutes once you've done it a few times, and has yielded better and more reliable prints than I ever achieved even when my auto-level sensor was working. I very rarely have to adjust my Z-offset, except for when I switch materials between PLA and PETG.
     
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  13. Jordan Dunn

    Jordan Dunn New Member

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    Black.
     
  14. Jordan Dunn

    Jordan Dunn New Member

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    Thank you very much for this!

    So I am very OCD about having my bed level. I do almost all of these processes, minus the EEPROM value. I get my tip level with all four corners of the thumbscrews. Then fine tune offset with circles. It works great and i print a part or whatever. Why do it the EEPROM way?

    Its when I go back the next day, turn it on. Send a print, start it & the first layer is no longer good. Is it all due to this auto level sensor?

    I never had issues with the original bed :( until the damn pogo pin problem hit me twice....then went to the black buildtak flex plate set-up.
     
  15. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Make sure nothing is adding any startup GCode scripts for you.
    Not your slicer, not octoprint, nothing. No slicer coded Z offsets in there either...
     
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  16. TransBat

    TransBat Member

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    The EEPROM way allows me to "instantly" make small/quick changes to my z-offset (either up or down) and know exactly what my z-offset is/should be. Saves me a ton of time to get that "perfect level" of squish without re-running a wizard.

    For me, disabling that auto-level sensor has been nothing short of game changing. I can almost always just drag, slice, and print without having to worry about my bed-level or z-offset. I occasionally have to make minor thumbscrew adjustments (I presume from bed vibration as I have NOT applied loctite to my thumbscrews screws yet). The only time I've adjusted my z-offset in the past 60+ days was when I got a clogged nozzle, and then decided this week was a perfect time to learn the additional z-offset distance needed for PETG (which from readings doesn't need the near-death squishing that PLA requires).
     
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  17. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Honestly I dont think there is a problem persay with the sensor. More so with an update that was done that frankly crippled both my machines. At some point there was a stroke of untested brilliance called "G36" this took the place of G28 and G29. IT SUCCCCCKKKKSSSSSSS.

    If you want to keep autolevel for some reason, you can remove the G36 in the start up scripts and in its place type
    G28 ; home all axis
    G29 ; autolevel dance

    in gcode anything after the ";" is a comment. You can write in whatever you'd like there as a note to yourself for the future.

    Try using the G29 and see if your problems go away (or just remove the G36 like @TransBat mentioned) and replace with a standard

    G28 ; home all axis

    let us know what you find

    edit: I say untested because while they may have tested it. It killed both my machines instantly and they could barely get a print going. clearly if it was tested, it wasn't enough :D
     
  18. TransBat

    TransBat Member

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    Geof, I'm curious - so if you use the G29 - does it perform the original 12 point (or was it 16 point) level method from before the OS/Firmware upgrade the decided that 9 points was good enough? Not sure I want to go back to using any sort of auto-level until Robo decides to use either UBL or implents some type of auto-leveling that doesn't suck, but can't lie I'm jealous of my few other friends/collagues and other makers who use/enjoy their 3D Printer's auto-leveling feature while I have to disable mine to get repeat/quality prints reliably. I guess on the plus side, I've learned quite a bit about z-offsets and manual bed-leveling, and the knowledge should be usable for other devices too ;)
     
  19. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Hey!
    You know I'm unsure how many points the standard leveling uses. I just recall for a few users it has worked much better than the G36. I'm still a bigger fan of a manual level- takes any software glitches out of the equation. It is certainly worth a shot if your feeling adventurous, especially since you can swap back easily (just write down your offset and plug it into eeprom after disabling autolevel again if needed).

    I've had a great many machines claim autolevel and they all wernt great lol. even my prusa machine everyone gloats about wasn't as grand/worry free as claimed. My leveling of choice is a nice stout bed frame with locking adjusters :D I will manually level the crap out of it and just have a good time lol.
     
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  20. TransBat

    TransBat Member

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    Thanks, Geof! I think I'll stick with the G36 commented out, and a good old G28 :D

    Perhaps it is a bit silly, but I get a small sense of pride/satisfaction knowing I "achieved" a level bed by manually doing it myself and can now repeatedly obtain quality prints no matter what I throw at my machines (My C2 gets the same G28 setup) ;)
     
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