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Unresolved TEMP FALL ERROR

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by James Slaughter, Jun 17, 2016.

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  1. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Making that one reverse modification gives you the best of both worlds :)
     
    #41 mark tomlinson, Jun 24, 2016
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  2. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

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    So a quick update everyone. I have replaced three thermistors, the cable coming from the thermistor to the board, checked all connections to the RAMPS board including the heater wires, and replaced the complete hotend including thermistor and heater (this I did because I accidentally clogged the hotend and broke it while unclogging it...).

    Still have the same issue. Also did some more troubleshooting over the phone with the Robo3D folks. Heated up the extruder to 285 and the bed to 100 and did all kinds of movements - temperature was very steady and didn't move by more than a degree to a degree and a half. Finally, I started a test print with a file they sent me that I loaded to the SD card and printed from the SD card to narrow down any comms to the computer issue. Same exact issue/symptoms.

    Robo is sending me a new RAMPS board. Anything else anyone thinks it could be while I am waiting for the new electronics?
     
    #42 Toro1966, Jun 30, 2016
  3. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    It can only be electrical or electronic.
    I would suspect the RAMPS (and after that the Arduino) last.

    The RAMPS (and Arduino) should not be motion sensitive. Unless they (or a connector/component on them) are loose.
     
    #43 mark tomlinson, Jun 30, 2016
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  4. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    ditto. After all that replacement you have done everything you can do other than replace the boards. like @mark tomlinson said, ramps first and most likely :D
     
    #44 Geof, Jun 30, 2016
  5. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

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    Thanks everyone. They are sending me the complete electronics. Ramps and Arduino board combined. I have to say that Robo technical support and customer service has been phenomenal. Even though I haven't even gotten this one working yet, I am considering buying a second one! :)
     
    #45 Toro1966, Jun 30, 2016
  6. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Having multiple printers is fun :)...and then sometimes its 2 or in my case 4x the nightmare lol.

    Glad to hear your having a good go with customer service. I always had a great experience with robo.
     
    #46 Geof, Jun 30, 2016
  7. Rigmarol

    Rigmarol Well-Known Member

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    I've been following along with interest.
    I also had some issues with my machine shortly after getting it.
    My problem wasn't a falling off of temp but a starting up with a high temp registering on a cold extruder.

    My issue was finally fixed with a new arduino board.
    Tech support was great with me as well. We started off exactly as you did, testing each suspected part along the way.

    My issue got resolved within the warranty period, I hope you are still under warranty as well.
    I hope you're up and running soon.
     
    #47 Rigmarol, Jul 1, 2016
  8. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

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    Ok - so now I am extremely frustrated. They sent me the new electronics today (both boards plug and play) and I connected it and same daggum issue. I don't know where to go from here. We have so far replaced:
    1. Two thermistors
    2. Entire hot end including heater and thermistor
    3. Wire from thermistor to board
    4. All new electronics boards

    We have turned the parts fan off. We have printed from the SD card to rule out a bad connection. Completely stumped at this point.
     
    #48 Toro1966, Jul 7, 2016
  9. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    #49 mark tomlinson, Jul 8, 2016
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  10. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    As for why you are having this issue with stock components, all I can hazard a guess at is the thermistor is fragile and if not broken the connections to it are critical (and it is easy to get one done wrong even from the factory).
     
    #50 mark tomlinson, Jul 8, 2016
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  11. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

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    Thanks Mark. Just bought them to give it a try. Ironically, because I want them here tomorrow, the shipping was more than the item....

    I understand what you're saying, but I find it EXTREMELY unlikely the thermistor is the cause at this point. We have literally replaced three of them. And while I do realize they are fragile, the statistical probability that all three were bad - is very small. Additionally, while I couldn't ring out the multi-meter to the tip of the thermistor itself because of the insulation, I did ring out all of the wiring to include the back end of the connector to the thermistor (as it leaves the connector to the physical thermistor) and all connectivity is there.

    I have one last - brand new - thermistor, and will install that when I install the new heater tomorrow - just to quadruple check, but if this doesn't work, it has got to go back to Robo....

    Not sure what else I can do from here. We have literally replaced nearly every component. I absolutely appreciate all of the support!
     
    #51 Toro1966, Jul 8, 2016
  12. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    MetalStud thermistor would have been my second thermistor :) Those are all I use now (well, except for one with a thermocouple for higher tempmaterials).

    Then you can rule out the thermistor forever.

    I totally get that this is probably not a bad thermistor. The TEMP FALL is usually the darn parts fan blowing on the hotend (but you disabled that as well).
     
    #52 mark tomlinson, Jul 8, 2016
  13. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

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    Mark - Out of curiosity, what is the purpose of the parts fan if it causes the Temp Fall Error and is there a fix? You are right, I do not believe that is my problem since I eliminated that early on, but I am just wondering why it is there if it causes problems. Is there a way to make it better (printed part or something)?
     
    #53 Toro1966, Jul 8, 2016
  14. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Some plastics (PLA in particular) need active cooling or they will come out looking 'melty' even if printed at the correct temperatures.

    The parts fan should not cause a problem because:
    1) It should only be blowing air on the part, not the nozzle
    2) The heater core should be easily able to accommodate extra air flow

    1 is the design of the parts fan bracket and hotend mount. Nothing you can do about that, but if it is a common issue Robo should redesign them. You will see if you look that there are a lot of alternatives for other hotends (E3D for example) that are much more directed and can't bother the nozzle. The stock parts fan doesn't move much air anyway.

    2 is ... well... no clue :) Originally all of the all-metal hotends used the 40w cores. Lately they have started to use the smaller ones (cost, maybe?) and we have started to see these issues. The Chinese clones of the popular all-metal units still DO use the 40w cores which probably explains why they are not complete junk. The extra heat will cover a multitude of 'sins' in how well the hotend is built.
     
    #54 mark tomlinson, Jul 8, 2016
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  15. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

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    Thanks. Appreciate all the help. I'm not opposed to upgrading the hot end with an E3D, but want to get it working first. I don't want to spend 70 bucks on the dang thing if it turns out it won't work because of a bigger problem with the printer.
     
    #55 Toro1966, Jul 8, 2016
  16. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Yup, good idea :)

    IF YOU DO go with an E3D : do yourself a favor and get a MetalStud thermistor to install at the same time.
     
    #56 mark tomlinson, Jul 8, 2016
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  17. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

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    Hey guys - Still troubleshooting this. One of the things I am ruling out is the MatterControl Software. I don't have Cura or others loaded, and frankly, one thing at a time..

    I do intend on using Cura, but not now. What I want to do is to get the Gcode for a smallish object that I can print via the sd card. I can download lots of stl files, but MatterControl is still doing the slicing - so is there a way anyone can send me a link to download the correct Robo3D R1+ G Code for an object I can test print?
    Thanks!
     
    #57 Toro1966, Jul 8, 2016
  18. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Toro if you give me all your settings and z offset ill slice whatever you want in simplify 3d
     
    #58 Geof, Jul 8, 2016
  19. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

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    Excellent - Thanks Geof! I am a bit of a noob, so which settings do you need, and where would I find them in MatterControl? Is there a way to export the settings to a file?
     
    #59 Toro1966, Jul 8, 2016
  20. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

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    If I am reading them right it was -
    Bed Size 228/254
    Print Center 114/127
    Build Height 200
    Z Offset 0
    Bed Shape Rectangular
     
    #60 Toro1966, Jul 8, 2016
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